Bluewater boat for under £40k: Moody or Jeanneau?

[Richard10002]

Most canal boats stay in fresh water, most yachts are in salt water.

The difference that makes is incredible.

And steel with it's slower corrosion in freshwater water has other advantages that make it ideal for inland waterways - the boats are easy to build with simple developable shapes with an acceptable easthetic, the ruggedness of steel is comes in handy especially with the way they handle and stone canalside structures, there's no stability issues with using quite thick gauge hull plates, and it feels like a traditional material for such boats. Win, win, win, win!

Apart from the ruggedness, none of that's the case with yachts.

I take it all on board but, apart from yachts and perhaps "smaller" motorboats, almost every boat and ship on the sea is steel, and they seem to survive.

On the canals, where GRP is the second class citizen, it is often the GRP boats that look neglected and poorly maintained.

I must admit that, if I were to buy a seagoing yacht again, I would prefer GRP, but I wonder if it is more to do with perception and tradition, as against real issues, (rather than different issues). e.g. Osmosis is a word to be feared in a survey of a GRP boat, but did any boat ever sink due to a bit of osmosis?

I guess "we are where we are", and I'm not going to change it

 

[Tranona]

I take it all on board but, apart from yachts and perhaps "smaller" motorboats, almost every boat and ship on the sea is steel, and they seem to survive.

Very different requirements. Ships (and many small commercial and fishing boats) have only a short design life - maybe 20 years. Steel is easy and cheap to build where weight is not such a problem. Being working vessels, constant, mainly cosmetic maintenance is just part of operating these ships. It was much the same with wood that was used for small commercial boats, only expected to last 15-20 years despite the heavy build as the woods used would rot away even though rot was delayed by salt water.

You can avoid all that in a yacht by using GRP which does not rot and more importantly survives neglect in general without losing structural integrity. Hence the popularity of the material, although one downside is you are usually limited to series production designs.

 

[robertj]

OK then. Ive had my Moody for nearly 20 years and lived aboard for most of that. I recently sold my Jenneau Sun Odyssey that was my school and charter boat. Had that for about ten years.

Have been over every inch of both boats many times over those years. Fitting, fixing, sailing. Based on that experience, my opinion is that there is no difference in the build quality.

Have sailed much newer versions from both manufacturers too. My opinion is unchanged.

Ive also got a thread running about how good Bavarias are!!

I’ve first hand knowledge of moodys and second hand knowledge of Bavaria’s. Moodys are older well constructed but I grant you will need upgrading. Bavaria’s are modern build lighter but the keel still came away from a friends Bavaria 32.
I’ve yet to hear of one Moody’s keel coming loose or falling off, or are there a many moodys keels that their owners are ashamed to admit have fallen off become loose or just didn’t get fitted properly in the first place?

Moody owners own up?!

 

[Tranona]

I’ve first hand knowledge of moodys and second hand knowledge of Bavaria’s. Moodys are older well constructed but I grant you will need upgrading. Bavaria’s are modern build lighter but the keel still came away from a friends Bavaria 32.
I’ve yet to hear of one Moody’s keel coming loose or falling off, or are there a many moodys keels that their owners are ashamed to admit have fallen off become loose or just didn’t get fitted properly in the first place?

Moody owners own up?!

Please explain what you mean by "came away". such a term can cover a multitude of things.

 

[Kelpie]

I'm surprised that our resident steel boat expert hasn't waded in yet. My only experience of steel boats is the one I drive at work, which is 30 years old and looks like something rejected by a scrap dealer. Pros and cons of steel boats had been well summed up already in this thread, suffice to say I am looking for grp...

 

[alant]

It is not about sinking - one of the advantages of steel boats is they are difficult to sink. It is the ongoing maintenance in a saltwater environment. Here I agree with our friend Brent that you can reduce this enormously by building boats like his where everything is welded up with the minimum of framing and all deck fittings welded on with no timber attached to the outside and minimum inside.

Unfortunately this is not how most steel yachts are built. They are mostly wooden boats in their shape and structure but using steel instead of timber - then adding timber on afterwards to make them look like timber boats. Result is a multitude of potential points where water or spray can get at the steel. Unless the resulting rust is dealt with quickly there is nothing to stop it spreading. A bit of neglect and the boat looks very sad, and is indeed sad as making good is a massive task. In many ways it is like wood - great if you start with a perfect boat and keep on top of maintenance.

The other thing against them in the market is that they are often quirky in that the original owners have gone for steel either because it is relatively easy to DIY or have a one off which is not available in production GRP. There are very few series production steel designs because there are few economies of scale. So you may be buying somebody else's dream boat, which is OK if your tastes are the same.

Having said all that if you are prepared to deal with the downsides such boats can be really good value. The boat linked to above has a lot going for it and if it were GRP (or even composite wood) it would command a much higher price. There seems to be a lot of good features and some excellent kit, so somebody may well get a bargain.

Liberty Ships (welded), were prone to breaking apart in cold water, so presumably any steel hull should sail south until the butter melts (northern hemisphere) as a precaution.

 

[robertj]

Please explain what you mean by "came away". such a term can cover a multitude of things.

The hull was loose on the keel. Whether the keel bolts slackened off or the srtructure was not up to it but the keel detached from the hull joint.
Keel off, rebedded tightened and sold at a knock down price.
I will say possibly that I’m not an expert like you tranona but Bavaria keel to hull are not their strong point.
Did or has your keel detached from your moody on 20years?

 

[sailaboutvic]

The hull was loose on the keel. Whether the keel bolts slackened off or the srtructure was not up to it but the keel detached from the hull joint.
Keel off, rebedded tightened and sold at a knock down price.
I will say possibly that I’m not an expert like you tranona but Bavaria keel to hull are not their strong point.
Did or has your keel detached from your moody on 20years?

We had them for well over 20 years , I must admin we did think we had a keel problem this year went we had water drips around one keel bolt but after days and days sailing hard with no floors to trace the water we found it was coming from the deck fitting pipe , thank god , so still not problem with keel .

 

[capnsensible]

The hull was loose on the keel. Whether the keel bolts slackened off or the srtructure was not up to it but the keel detached from the hull joint.
Keel off, rebedded tightened and sold at a knock down price.
I will say possibly that I’m not an expert like you tranona but Bavaria keel to hull are not their strong point.
Did or has your keel detached from your moody on 20years?

Well I've only sailed a Bavaria across the Pacific once. And from the Canaries to the med twice on two different ones. And my Moody across the Atlantic four times. And. Jenneau twice. Plus a few makes we haven't even mentioned including shock horror two catamarans. I really should spend more time reading stuff on forums to get a proper opinion rather than actually going and doing stuff.

 

[Roberto]

Well I've only sailed a Bavaria across the Pacific once. And from the Canaries to the med twice on two different ones. And my Moody across the Atlantic four times. And. Jenneau twice. Plus a few makes we haven't even mentioned including shock horror two catamarans. I really should spend more time reading stuff on forums to get a proper opinion rather than actually going and doing stuff.

May I agree.
Also, rather than brand/vs/brand, imho most important would be the characteristics of the boat: type of rig, water diesel tankage, engine power and availability of spares, ease of checking water electricity and all sort of equipment, decent watch space outside, ventilation, protection from elements, ease of singlehanding, etc.
One may get a very sturdy icebreaker boat just to find later life on it is miserable.

 

[dslittle]

May I agree.
Also, rather than brand/vs/brand, imho most important would be the characteristics of the boat: type of rig, water diesel tankage, engine power and availability of spares, ease of checking water electricity and all sort of equipment, decent watch space outside, ventilation, protection from elements, ease of singlehanding, etc.
One may get a very sturdy icebreaker boat just to find later life on it is miserable.

So what do you base that analysis on??? (which I kind of know)

You are up against quite a number of experts sitting in their armchairs looking across the Hamble watching Bavarias 'fall over'...

 

[robertj]

Well I've only sailed a Bavaria across the Pacific once. And from the Canaries to the med twice on two different ones. And my Moody across the Atlantic four times. And. Jenneau twice. Plus a few makes we haven't even mentioned including shock horror two catamarans. I really should spend more time reading stuff on forums to get a proper opinion rather than actually going and doing stuff.

That’s a good recommendation if they have done that for sure. Yes you seem a very experienced sailor who has many miles under your belt without a hitch. An impressive history of sailing without a showdown of a doubt.
But taking that into account my mates keel was coming off and he only sails up the coast and back a couple of times.
There is no need for the last paragraph as it tries to bully your own opinion through. I made a comment that the Bavaria 32 keel was coming off that’s all and it’s best to stick to the moodys.

 

[robertj]

?????

 

[Sybarite]

Expanding our search to the Med reveals an abundance of AWBs. There are a few Gib'Sea models around, these look very tempting- would I be right in thinking they are a bit cheaper than Ben/Jen/Bav? Anything wrong with them?

Rugged, low frills boats.

 

[Kelpie]

Rugged, low frills boats.

Thanks, that's the impression I've picked up from Googling. There's an interesting Gib'Sea 372 on the market, low price maybe because it has a tiller- which I consider a bonus tbh!