capnsensible
Well-known member
Were they on a freighter.
Isnt it great that they are safe and seaworthy enough to not have to do that?
Bluewater boat for under £40k: Moody or Jeanneau?
- Thread starter Kelpie
- Start date
Isnt it great that they are safe and seaworthy enough to not have to do that?
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
Of course it is you really need to read between lines or at least take note of the smilies, fishing is good today.
dom
Well-known member
Guessing the trip was made around January with reports coming in now. A mid-winter voyage at the moment through the 'Roaring 40s' and 'Screaming 50s' might indeed involve a bit of slamming!
https://www.windy.com/?-28.536,-95.713,3,i:pressure
Seriously though, multiple voyages like that do certainly build a picture of seaworthiness and competence. The west side of South America as one works back up to the trades is a most unforgiving coast with few amenities along the way.
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capnsensible
Well-known member
Of course it is you really need to read between lines or at least take note of the smilies, fishing is good today.
Fab back pedal.
:encouragement:
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
Fab back pedal.
You will have to do better than that, all that bending over picking up strawberries then compounded by all that time beneath the waves has addled your logic centres.
:encouragement:
capnsensible
Well-known member
You will have to do better than that, all that bending over picking up strawberries then compounded by all that time beneath the waves has addled your logic centres.
And uphill too! Well done.
:encouragement:
capnsensible
Well-known member
Indeed. Reliably informed that there are a lack of boats around in both Oz and NZ with owners doing exactly that.
Kelpie
Well-known member
Expanding our search to the Med reveals an abundance of AWBs. There are a few Gib'Sea models around, these look very tempting- would I be right in thinking they are a bit cheaper than Ben/Jen/Bav? Anything wrong with them?
alant
Active member
Not the ones I've sailed, very good boats. IIRC they were taken over by Dufour.
davidlhill
Well-known member
What does "VAT status can be lost"? Do you mean that if I buy a second hand boat here in the UK VAT paid, sail away for 5 years, and return, I would then have to pay VAT again? And if so, on what? Original selling price (whenever that was)? Current market price? Price I paid for it?
Thanks,
David
Tranona
Well-known member
Read HMRC VAT Notice No8 or the HMRC/RYA FAQ sheet on the subject.
It s indeed true that once a boat leaves the EU it potentially is liable for VAT if it re-enters and definitely is if it changes ownership outside the EU. VAT is not a tax on the asset (the boat) but on transactions and import into the EU is classified as a "chargeable event". This is logical otherwise imported boats would have a cost advantage over EU built boats.
However boats that have had VAT paid on a transaction in the EU are eligible for reliefs, and the common one is "Returned Goods Relief" which allows the person who took the boat out to bring it back in without paying any VAT. The time limit on this is "normally" 3 years which covers most situations and HMRC are known to be flexible about this. If VAT does become payable it is based on current value rather than original cost.
Other ways of avoiding this potential tax which is of help to those who keep VAT boats outside the EU in places like Turkey, Montenegro, Canaries, is to make periodic visits into the EU (keeping evidence) as this starts the clock again.
Kelpie
Well-known member
Very interesting post, thank you.
Is there anywhere outside of the actual continent of Europe that counts as being in the EU for VAT purposes? Three years is a bit tight for a circumnav, but if you could stop in at an overseas territory that would be very handy...
Tranona
Well-known member
No. And of course after next year this may all change depending on what the new VAT regime looks like. As I hinted the 3 years is a "normal" and I doubt any "genuine" person has really had any problems on return. Hardly a big thing for customs in terms of potential revenue vs hassle.
I would put this issue way down my list of things to worry about, even below deciding if I have enough spare wicks for my cabin paraffin lamp!
lpdsn
New member
The French Overseas Depts are part of the EU. e.g Martinique, Reunion. Beware that different parts of the remains of the French empire have different statuses so they don't all count as being part of the EU.
Kelpie
Well-known member
A quick Google throws up this list:
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custo...al-status-eu-countries-certain-territories_en
Which suggests that certain territories may be in the EU but at the same time exempt from VAT rules. E.g. the Canaries.
Of the places where VAT rules do apply, the ones of note to me are Madeira and the Azores.
But hopefully it's not a problem in practise, certainly it does sound daft to go round the world on your boat and come home to a VAT bill for no apparent reason.
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custo...al-status-eu-countries-certain-territories_en
Which suggests that certain territories may be in the EU but at the same time exempt from VAT rules. E.g. the Canaries.
Of the places where VAT rules do apply, the ones of note to me are Madeira and the Azores.
But hopefully it's not a problem in practise, certainly it does sound daft to go round the world on your boat and come home to a VAT bill for no apparent reason.
Tomaret
Active member
Have you seen this one - looks the part and seems to be suitable for actually living on as a family. An offer might bring it within budget.
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Sailboats/steel-yacht-/205516
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Sailboats/steel-yacht-/205516
Kelpie
Well-known member
Spotted that on eBay. Hell of a lot of boat for the money! But steel boats scare me...
Tomaret
Active member
I know what you mean, and I feel the same, but I don’t really know why and I’m not sure it’s logical.
Tranona
Well-known member
Always think of Madeira and the Azores as Portugal rather than overseas territories. Good places to stop and then you have entered the EU before reaching the UK! So no need to notify UK customs (for now).
Kelpie
Well-known member
Just received a survey for a mid 1980s Sun Fizz. It was a low priced boat, but wow what an eye opener.
I know that this is just one example and does not mean that every boat of this type will have problems, but it does somewhat reinforce my concerns about this type of design. Osmosis, movement around the keel/hull joint, deformation of the hull when the boat is sat on its keel, rudder showing evidence of repair around the shaft (collision/grounding damage?), rudder structurally unsound and waterlogged. I guess it was cheap for a reason!
How common are these sorts of faults? The boats I've owned to date have been considerably older yet not had any such problems.
I know that this is just one example and does not mean that every boat of this type will have problems, but it does somewhat reinforce my concerns about this type of design. Osmosis, movement around the keel/hull joint, deformation of the hull when the boat is sat on its keel, rudder showing evidence of repair around the shaft (collision/grounding damage?), rudder structurally unsound and waterlogged. I guess it was cheap for a reason!
How common are these sorts of faults? The boats I've owned to date have been considerably older yet not had any such problems.
