Bavaria capsizes in Zumaya ( Country Vasque. Spain )

[longjohnsilver]

Thats good news. I could only count two people towards the end so I suspect each person hung onto one with a LJ. I did suspect that they were in shallows and that accounts for the yachts action.

There were definitely 4 heads in the water, 2x2 very close together. Frightening indeed and not pleasant viewing. Thank goodness all were saved.

 

[nigelmercier]

But the breakers were fairly regular so coming in from seaward the skipper should have seen the sea conditions and aborted all thoughts of carrying on ...

Quite so, my first thought would be to get away from there.

The MOB rescue would have been fairly simple by chucking over a fender and line and towing them to the calmer area.

And WTF were non-swimmers doing without lifejackets!

 

[30boat]

What I can't understand is what were those people doing outside the safety of the cockpit.Inexperience and ignorance is the only explanation.I would never have attempted to enter port in those conditions.
The stability of the Bavaria amazed me.They usualy have very low ballast ratios,

 

[mrming]

What I can't understand is what were those people doing outside the safety of the cockpit.Inexperience and ignorance is the only explanation.I would never have attempted to enter port in those conditions.
The stability of the Bavaria amazed me.They usualy have very low ballast ratios,

I counted 7 people on deck at the start of the film.

4 in the cockpit, 1 on the side deck and two on the foredeck. After the boat is rolled there is one left in the cockpit and two on the foredeck.

This film demonstrates there is very little safety in the cockpit in a roll past 180 degrees. It's definitely made me think having never been past 180 in a keelboat.

 

[30boat]

I counted 6 people on deck at the start of the film.

3 in the cockpit, 1 on the side deck and two on the foredeck. After the boat is rolled there is one left in the cockpit and two on the foredeck.

This film demonstrates there is very little safety in the cockpit in a roll past 180 degrees. It's definitely made me think having never been past 180 in a keelboat.

I had a plus 180º capsize on my Fulmar but I was down below luckily.No water came through the companiomway although the starboard ports were totally immersed.

 

[mrming]

I had a plus 180º capsize on my Fulmar but I was down below luckily.No water came through the companiomway although the starboard ports were totally immersed.

I had to revise my sums above as the numbers didn't add up - I realised there was an extra person in the cockpit I hadn't spotted.

I've had the spreader tips in the water a good few times when racing over the years, but thankfully have never been rolled by a big wave. I don't think I've ever seen such a clear video of it before. The speed at which it happens, and then is over is shocking. If you aren't clipped on with a short tether (or down below like yourself) you would be very lucky to stay on board.

 

[myquest]

This film demonstrates there is very little safety in the cockpit in a roll past 180 degrees. It's definitely made me think having never been past 180 in a keelboat.

This boat is laid flat which makes it a bit over 90 degrees. At 180 the keel would be uppermost. The fact they did a 360 outside indicates to me that they were at least aware of possible problems entering the channel but if we are to learn from their mistakes it would be that they ignored the possible seriousness of the hazard (no L/Js, not clipped on) and no one was looking astern to see what might follow them in. Turning the stern into the breaking wave might have filled the cockpit but would it have averted a knockdown? I would be interested to know if modern wide hull shapes are be more prone to being laid over like this. The righting is not in question as it bobbed straight back up.

 

[Sailingsaves]

I kept waiting to see a throwing line deployed _ either by the cruiser immediately whilst still in deep water and whilst within throwing distance or the small boat when doing the rescue. Small boat relied on hand to hand grabbing _ but very good helming by small boat.

One of my first purchases when I had a boat _ one of those bags with a cricket ball in the end and a load of floating line coiled in the bag.

Thank goodness all they lost was the horse shoe lifebuoy (which looks like it would have washed up on the beach).

 

[Monique]

...This film demonstrates there is very little safety in the cockpit in a roll past 180 degrees. ....

2 misconceptions in this thread. The Bavaria did not capsize. It suffered a knock down.

Secondly, I saw 95 degree roll... perhaps 100. Other minor point, most Bavs have a lead keel and if it is the deep keel option... such as fitted to regatta boats (they were returning from a regatta) then the angle of Vanishing Stability will be very high indeed.

 

[stav]

Strikes me he had some idea of what he was entering because of the turn around early on before the approach. I was also wondering if the crew where on deck to spread the crew weight around? Also I think rather than even being clipped on they might have been better down below. After all it only needed two on deck helm and look out?

Didn't watch the rescue: couldn't.

 

[savageseadog]

A rogue wave, I don't think there's anything the skipper could have done about the roll, just unlucky. After the roll it would be difficult to blame him too much as one more biggie might have had the boat on the beach or wall which did limit options.

 

[Monique]

A rogue wave, I don't think there's anything the skipper could have done about the roll, just unlucky. After the roll it would be difficult to blame him too much as one more biggie might have had the boat on the beach or wall which did limit options.

He was washed overboard during the knockdown..... MOB drill anyone?.. without the Captain?

 

[TimBennet]

2 misconceptions in this thread. The Bavaria did not capsize. It suffered a knock down.

Secondly, I saw 95 degree roll... perhaps 100. Other minor point, most Bavs have a lead keel and if it is the deep keel option... such as fitted to regatta boats (they were returning from a regatta) then the angle of Vanishing Stability will be very high indeed.

And don't for a moment think that any other make of (sailing displacement keel) boat would have faired better. Breaking waves have no respect for any particular type. Only a powerboat that could have travelled at the same sped as the wave train whist staying on the back of a wave would have survived. That needs a lot of power in a planing hull.

The only possible exception might have been an OVNI with its centreboard all the way up which may have skidded sideways when struck. There is some anecdotal evidence (AFAIK) for this, but it hasn't been replicated in a wave tank.

 

[savageseadog]

He was washed overboard during the knockdown..... MOB drill anyone?.. without the Captain?

That's a good point. One shouldn't underestimate the effects of shock and fear, that wave was a whopper.

 

[mrming]

2 misconceptions in this thread. The Bavaria did not capsize. It suffered a knock down.

Secondly, I saw 95 degree roll... perhaps 100. Other minor point, most Bavs have a lead keel and if it is the deep keel option... such as fitted to regatta boats (they were returning from a regatta) then the angle of Vanishing Stability will be very high indeed.

Excuse my poor late night maths - it is of course around 100 degrees.

As to lessons, the use of a throwing line is a very good point. I've actually been laughed at for having one on the back of our small boat.

Harnesses would have kept everyone on board but you can understand why no one was wearing them if they were out for a local day race. Lifejackets - obviously madness not wearing them.

I showed this video to a novice sailor and was interested to see that the first section wasn't any concern at all.

Personally I was horrified as soon as I saw the casual motoring side on to massive waves. When the port entrance came into view I nearly passed out.

A miracle no one was seriously hurt and the boat wasn't dashed to bits on the enormous rocks.

I certainly wouldn't fancy being based out of that marina and to be honest my lack of knowledge of the area makes me reluctant to pass judgement beyond the obvious points above.

 

[Tim Good]

If they deployed a drouge and steered in, would it have been enough to keep the boat "stern-to" to a wave of that size or would it still have rounded up and been knocked down?

 

[Neil_Y]

I think it was quite interesting to see that the two people on the fore/side deck stayed on the boat whilst three people from the cockpit left the boat. The cockpit gives a false sense of security and in many ways past 60-70 deg there is less to stop you as the cockpit coamings are higher relative to the guard wires, your also standing rather than on the foredeck where they were lying down. A lesson to clip on when driving or in the safety of the cockpit. We had a knock down (in a Bav) and there is not much to stop you sliding over the side, the cockpit seat backs are angled to make them comfortable to sit in but at 90deg there is only the wheel and binnacle to hang on to. Quick access to a throw line might have helped here and is worth thinking about.

 

[Neil_Y]

If they deployed a drouge and steered in, would it have been enough to keep the boat "stern-to" to a wave of that size or would it still have rounded up and been knocked down?

I don't think a drogue would have been much help there with that boat, I'd have gone for speed and tried to keep it straight, but maybe planned on a knock down in the process. Gives you confidence in the righting ability and strength of this type of lighter weight boat though.

 

[Tim Good]

I don't think a drogue would have been much help there with that boat

Isn't that the point of a drouge in the open sea though? To run before a breaking sea and prevent knock downs?

 

[Neil_Y]

The trouble is in that situation you need speed to get in to avoid those waves and then if you get hit there is less damage to the boat if it goes with the wave or surfs, the broach is the risk you take. We used trailed warps deep sea with breaking waves of that size but faired better when we could steer the boat and surf with them, at night we used the trailed warps to slow the boat and help keep here stern to as we couldn't see the angle of the waves and had knock downs and much bigger waves landing in the cockpit. Breaking waves in the shallows involve much more movement of water. Drogues are for when you want to rest/stop and go bellow for some sleep.

But I'm certain there will be opposing views on that, most of the time it's down to knowing how your particular boat will behave as they are all different and need different approaches.