Sandyman
Well-known member
I would go along with that. We spent a night there in 2012. Wouldn't recommend the place.
Bavaria capsizes in Zumaya ( Country Vasque. Spain )
- Thread starter javier
- Start date
I would go along with that. We spent a night there in 2012. Wouldn't recommend the place.
bikedaft
Well-known member
perhaps they decided not to be clipped on? in case they got rolled/dragged under boat etc? don't agree with the no LJ's tho. tho perhaps strong swimmers in a warm sea may disagree?
peterb
New member
The entrance to the side channel has a pair of beacons, port and starboard. I now have four videos or frame sequences showing the same beacons, while four different boats demonstrate the effects of swells breaking into a shelving harbour. Three broaches and one pitch-pole. I use them as teaching aids; the teaching point being to avoid Zumaila!
If this was a local boat then it should not have been surprised; the sequences have been well publicised.
One point of interest is the photographer's ability to take such shots. One can't help thinking that these conditions must happen sufficiently often to justify someone setting up a tripod mounted camera just on the off-chance of getting interesting piccies.
If this was a local boat then it should not have been surprised; the sequences have been well publicised.
One point of interest is the photographer's ability to take such shots. One can't help thinking that these conditions must happen sufficiently often to justify someone setting up a tripod mounted camera just on the off-chance of getting interesting piccies.
zimp58
New member
mrming
Well-known member
Just to clarify, my comment was in the context of a crew member in the cockpit, not someone using a jackline on the side / fore decks.
A short tether in the cockpit in this situation would have kept a crew member in the boat.
30boat
N/A
Could you post your videos here?
Sailfree
Well-known member
I am begining to believe that this sort of capsize happens frequently at this port and while its stirred interest on here its no big deal for the locals!!
Siosarnoir
Member
I was heading for this port this summer when the wind increased to F6/7 , it was westerly so we carried on to Getaria just a few miles on . The entrance there was calm and the town is lovely.
LittleSister
Well-known member
I wonder whether there is any merit in coming in backwards in such situations, and driving into any breaking waves? (We do something similar in sea the kayaking sometimes.)
This would mean the helm can better see and judge the waves coming at him, at the critical moment when steering and acceleration is needed the prop and rudder are in solid water rather than the froth coming down the front of the breaking wave, the motor (in forward) is reducing the (backward) speed and the tendency of the other end of the boat (stern in this case) to dig in, and the bow cuts through and offers less resistance than would the stern to the breaking water coming down the front of the wave (and maybe also having less buoyancy than the stern keeps the boat closer to the horizontal and less likely to dig in at the other end).
Any comments/thoughts?
p.s. Impressive both how fast the boat goes over and how fast it comes up again in that video.
This would mean the helm can better see and judge the waves coming at him, at the critical moment when steering and acceleration is needed the prop and rudder are in solid water rather than the froth coming down the front of the breaking wave, the motor (in forward) is reducing the (backward) speed and the tendency of the other end of the boat (stern in this case) to dig in, and the bow cuts through and offers less resistance than would the stern to the breaking water coming down the front of the wave (and maybe also having less buoyancy than the stern keeps the boat closer to the horizontal and less likely to dig in at the other end).
Any comments/thoughts?
p.s. Impressive both how fast the boat goes over and how fast it comes up again in that video.
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sarabande
Well-known member
the boat would be thrown backwards and the rudders torn off, if not pitchpoled backwards. You would be pitting a 50hp engine in a 10 tonne boat against a wave of at least a thousand tonnes moving at 15 knots. No contest.
ShinyShoe
Well-known member
Praise for managing not to chop the MOBs legs off with the recovery over the engine and never approaching the casualties into the waves?
Why did he (powerboat) come out and go back in. They lost 1 minute?
All 4 recovered.The two without LJs appeared to buddy up with those with so became difficult to see.
Approaching into the wave would have allowed a better control of speed and direction and the casualty to be picked up on the forward quarter if possible.
Harsh considering he was swimming... ...I'm not a yacht helm. I could probably get back to a MOB in a yacht in open water. I would have hit the wall. I could have been that crew member left on board.
Ravi
Active member
Re - the recovery of the MOBs (which had to be done from the MOBO because of the shallow water).....
Has anyone come across the 'Seattle Sling'. A wise old chap who I did my early training with had one on his boat. Although an RYA instructor, he was convinced that it was the best method of recovering a conscious MOB. The US Coast Guard research backs him up. This vid convinces me, more than ever, that he is right.
In summary, the Seattle sling is a canvas sling at the end of a long floating line. Instead of approaching the MOB, you circle the MOB paying out the line. The laws of physics make the line go out in concentric circles and, eventually, the MOB can grab the line and the sling. The benefits are that you do not need to manoeuvre a 10 ton bucking boat close to a person and then struggle to make contact with them. In this particular warm weather harbour scenario, the MOBs could have been towed to calm water before recover.
The Seattle sling is nothing more than a bit of canvas and a length of floating line stuffed into a bag on the pushpit so it is, (for once!), a bit of safety equipment that can be inexpensively assembled. Next time you are out rescuing Bob and the bucket, why not experiment with this technique? Obviously, Bob can't grab on to it but it will give you an idea of how easy it is to get the line/sling to a conscious MOB. Lots of good research on the web, about it, too.
Has anyone come across the 'Seattle Sling'. A wise old chap who I did my early training with had one on his boat. Although an RYA instructor, he was convinced that it was the best method of recovering a conscious MOB. The US Coast Guard research backs him up. This vid convinces me, more than ever, that he is right.
In summary, the Seattle sling is a canvas sling at the end of a long floating line. Instead of approaching the MOB, you circle the MOB paying out the line. The laws of physics make the line go out in concentric circles and, eventually, the MOB can grab the line and the sling. The benefits are that you do not need to manoeuvre a 10 ton bucking boat close to a person and then struggle to make contact with them. In this particular warm weather harbour scenario, the MOBs could have been towed to calm water before recover.
The Seattle sling is nothing more than a bit of canvas and a length of floating line stuffed into a bag on the pushpit so it is, (for once!), a bit of safety equipment that can be inexpensively assembled. Next time you are out rescuing Bob and the bucket, why not experiment with this technique? Obviously, Bob can't grab on to it but it will give you an idea of how easy it is to get the line/sling to a conscious MOB. Lots of good research on the web, about it, too.
Ravi
Active member
On rewatchnig the video, a few charitable comments about the sailors involved.
1. it was a real freak wave since the same wave also broke right over the harbour wall from the other side - and no other waves in the video did this.
2. When struck, they were just a couple of boat lengths away from sheltered calm water. (So, maybe they did relax just fractionally too early.) The skipper probably had a split second decision to make; gun the engine and try to make the slack water at the risk of being pooped at speed and pitchpoling vs. see if the boat could ride the wave. When the wave appeared, it looks like he may have decided to turn towards the calmer water (very!) close to the harbour wall in the hope of avoiding the wave. This exposed his quarter to the wave but, if so, it would have had to be a split second decision / gamble.
There but for the grace of God etc......
3. The crew responded impressively quickly to bang the helm to starboard and power the yacht away from the shallows. Five seconds later and the yacht would have been swept further ashore by the next wave.
1. it was a real freak wave since the same wave also broke right over the harbour wall from the other side - and no other waves in the video did this.
2. When struck, they were just a couple of boat lengths away from sheltered calm water. (So, maybe they did relax just fractionally too early.) The skipper probably had a split second decision to make; gun the engine and try to make the slack water at the risk of being pooped at speed and pitchpoling vs. see if the boat could ride the wave. When the wave appeared, it looks like he may have decided to turn towards the calmer water (very!) close to the harbour wall in the hope of avoiding the wave. This exposed his quarter to the wave but, if so, it would have had to be a split second decision / gamble.
There but for the grace of God etc......
3. The crew responded impressively quickly to bang the helm to starboard and power the yacht away from the shallows. Five seconds later and the yacht would have been swept further ashore by the next wave.
GrahamM376
New member
Known mainly here as the LifeSling, carried by lots of us. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=L...nnel=fflb&gws_rd=cr&ei=gEMNU47VLYqq0QX60YHADw
Still leaves you with the problem of getting the casualty back aboard.
Ravi
Active member
That's the one. It makes you wonder why the RYA don't include it in their training as the preferred option of recovery.
Better to be haled on board like a kipper than poked in the eye with a boat hook!
nimbusgb
Active member
Ravi, the yacht buggered off because the water where the mobs were is too shallow. Circling them trailing a line in that position may have had the boat aground or in case of having to avoid another wave, with a fouled prop. Lots of rope in the water when offshore may be manageable but I'd not be happy that close to rocks, beach, concrete blocks, waves and potentially other vessels on the way in, out or trying to help.
4 in the water 2 non swimmers, who says the non swimmers weren't the ones wearing lj's?
As for foredeck people still being on deck after the knockdown. Doesn't surprise me at all! If you spend any time on a serious foredeck you develop a very very strong sense of self preservation along with a strong grip!
Lot's of 'I would have done this ,that or the next thing' very easy to say until you are the skipper in the water and a foredeck hand is making do as best he can with your boat.
How many boat owners or skippers have let go of the wheel, stepped back and yelled 'skipper overboard'.
Try it, it can be very enlightening!
4 in the water 2 non swimmers, who says the non swimmers weren't the ones wearing lj's?
As for foredeck people still being on deck after the knockdown. Doesn't surprise me at all! If you spend any time on a serious foredeck you develop a very very strong sense of self preservation along with a strong grip!
Lot's of 'I would have done this ,that or the next thing' very easy to say until you are the skipper in the water and a foredeck hand is making do as best he can with your boat.
How many boat owners or skippers have let go of the wheel, stepped back and yelled 'skipper overboard'.
Try it, it can be very enlightening!
Wandering Star
Well-known member
My take on this was the potential for the swamping or flipping of the mobo was very real. The mobo driver wanted to be in a position to dump the casualties back in the water and drive the mobo out of trouble as required. This did happen a couple of times at least. The casualties were in pairs, the mobo driver would have had to leave the helm in order to help his crew recover the brace of MOB's as they'd be too heavy for just one person to recover which would have left a driverless mobo with 4 men hanging onto the bow or top sides. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work if the mobo was up for another swamping. Under the circumstances, bringing the casualties in over the transom (with the engine in neutral) was the least worse option open to the moboers. And they achieved this successfully so what's to criticise? How would you have gone about the rescue taking into account the sea conditions and the weight of 4 men ( 2 crew & 2 MOB's at each recovery)?
bikedaft
Well-known member
every day we are out. it takes a few goes for them to figure it all out... i want them to be able to get me back
Ravi
Active member
No argument from me, there. In fact .......
I was talking about using the Seattle sling from this Motorboat.
30boat
N/A
The mobo skipper deserves prais for doing a difficult job in dangerous conditions.Only last week a mobo of approximately de same size got things wrong in the bar here in Tavira and was capsized by a wave(much,much smaller than the one on the video)resulting in one of the death of one of the two crew .
