Bavaria capsizes in Zumaya ( Country Vasque. Spain )

[dom]

The mobo skipper deserves prais for doing a difficult job in dangerous conditions.Only last week a mobo of approximately de same size got things wrong in the bar here in Tavira and was capsized by a wave(much,much smaller than the one on the video)resulting in one of the death of one of the two crew .

Yes skillful and brave - he doesn't even have a more stable offshore rib. It's impressive how the mobo ducks and dives between the breaking waves - rescuing the first two, then taking cover, before finally pulling the next two out. I'd agree that top marks are deserved here.

 

[Sailfree]

The mobo skipper deserves prais for doing a difficult job in dangerous conditions.Only last week a mobo of approximately de same size got things wrong in the bar here in Tavira and was capsized by a wave(much,much smaller than the one on the video)resulting in one of the death of one of the two crew .

I trust he had his Power Boat level 2 qualification and Rescue Boat qualification and breathalized before departure to do the rescue or Spanish HSE rules should have stopped him going out.

I would praise him in that he showed considerable skill and must have stopped the engines as the risk of leg injuries to those in the water appeared to be high and only prevented by the skill of the MoBo skipper.

What qualifications are required in Spain?

 

[Joker]

My two pennies worth?

They should all have been in the cockpit, harnessed on.

 

[Sailfree]

My two pennies worth?

They should all have been in the cockpit, harnessed on.

To enable others to make a value judgement there are a number of cases where people have been drowned by being harnessed on. Certainly LJ. I insist on harness when dark and we reef but I am really not sure of the merits in these exact circumstances. It was the ones on the foredeck that remained on board - hard against guard rails?

Certainly a harness would have tethered people to the boat but doesn't look like it would have stopped those in cockpit from going overboard. The remaining crew would then have concentrated on getting them back before running engine/steering/getting boat safe. I am imagining the risk of boat being left to go onto the rocks while they try to recover struggling tethered MOB.

Interested in others views but not sure that there is any one correct answer.

 

[affinite]

I trust he had his Power Boat level 2 qualification and Rescue Boat qualification and breathalized before departure to do the rescue or Spanish HSE rules should have stopped him going out.

I would praise him in that he showed considerable skill and must have stopped the engines as the risk of leg injuries to those in the water appeared to be high and only prevented by the skill of the MoBo skipper.

What qualifications are required in Spain?

Sobering video...
Agree - top marks to the mobo driver. (Not so to the Yacht skipper.)
If I had been the Mobo driver I would not have turned off my engine despite laceration risk to MOB. The risk to the mobo crew of the engine not restarting and the boat being capsized outweighs the risk to the MOB IMHO.
The mobo would not have rolled back up !

 

[30boat]

Sobering video...
Agree - top marks to the mobo driver. (Not so to the Yacht skipper.)
If I had been the Mobo driver I would not have turned off my engine despite laceration risk to MOB. The risk to the mobo crew of the engine not restarting outweighs the risk to the MOB IMHO.

Most likely he put the engine in neutral.

 

[GrahamM376]

Interested in others views but not sure that there is any one correct answer.

There isn't a correct answer - planning often goes out of the window due to circumstances.

Hindsight is wonderful isn't it. In my opinion they should have been wearing LJs in those conditions but I would not have been clipped on. Given that the skipper may not have thought out his approach properly for the conditions, I think the remaining helmsman took the correct action in keeping the yacht out of more trouble and getting assistance very quickly. Whatever the gearshift/engine status of the mobo, it worked out well as quite obviously the mobo skipper knew what he was doing.

 

[Ravi]

Sobering video...
Agree - top marks to the mobo driver. (Not so to the Yacht skipper.)
If I had been the Mobo driver I would not have turned off my engine despite laceration risk to MOB. The risk to the mobo crew of the engine not restarting and the boat being capsized outweighs the risk to the MOB IMHO.
The mobo would not have rolled back up !

Yes, a brave and controlled rescue.

The risk in this rescue was the proximity of the boat and swimmers in the big seas. As I suggested before, the use of a line to tow the MOB's to (very nearby) calm water may have been a better option in this particular rescue. With the frame on the transom and the possibility of towing in reverse, there should have been no risk of a fouled prop.

That is hypothetical, though.
The fact that they pulled out the MOBs succesfully proves that they knew what they were doing.

 

[LittleSister]

I wonder whether there is any merit in coming in backwards in such situations. . . .

the boat would be thrown backwards and the rudders torn off, if not pitchpoled backwards. You would be pitting a 50hp engine in a 10 tonne boat against a wave of at least a thousand tonnes moving at 15 knots. No contest.

Really? I wonder how many boats have lost their rudders (or capsized) leaving such harbours.

 

[sarabande]

here's a video of a yacht heading out to sea, and nearly losing it to smaller waves.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml5wBgV7iMs


Now imagine that boat already making a sternway to ENTER the harbour, and being smashed back by a big roller.

 

[[3889]]

2 misconceptions in this thread. The Bavaria did not capsize. It suffered a knock down.

I thought they were much the same thing, and I'm not alone in this belief: http://www.admiralyacht.com/admiral-news/crash-test-boat-pdfs/crash-test-boat-capsize.pdf

I would say a boat has capsized if the masthead is in the water, which was the definition in the racing rules (this may have changed).

How would you define capsize? When the boat doesn't re-right itself? Is a complete roll a capsize or a knockdown?

 

[Twister_Ken]

How would you define capsize? When the boat doesn't re-right itself? Is a complete roll a capsize or a knockdown?

Interesting question. For me, I think a capsize is when it goes over and stays over. If it goes down and comes back up the same way it's a knockdown. If it does a 360 it's a roll. I'm sure those aren't RYA-approved definitions though.

 

[Bav34]

Interesting question. For me, I think a capsize is when it goes over and stays over. If it goes down and comes back up the same way it's a knockdown. If it does a 360 it's a roll. I'm sure those aren't RYA-approved definitions though.

+1

 

[TimBennet]

Because 'capsize' has such a wide range of meanings in popular parlance, a B1 Knockdown is taken to mean 90° and a B2 Knockdown is 180°.

 

[dom]

How would you define capsize? When the boat doesn't re-right itself?

Yes it's funny how language changes. It used to be only dinghies that capsized, whilst yachts suffered B1 or B2 knockdowns.

 

[MikeBz]

here's a video of a yacht heading out to sea, and nearly losing it to smaller waves.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml5wBgV7iMs


Now imagine that boat already making a sternway to ENTER the harbour, and being smashed back by a big roller.

Looks like a Sadler 34? Companionway shut might have been a good idea...

 

[Ravi]

Looks like a Sadler 34? Companionway shut might have been a good idea...

I didn't think they looked particularly distressed by the conditions. If they were in a Sadler 34, that would explain it.
Mind, the skipper was probably a bit worried about the hull splatting one of the many people in the water swimming around with their ironing boards!

 

[MJ24]

There isn't a correct answer - planning often goes out of the window due to circumstances.

Hindsight is wonderful isn't it. In my opinion they should have been wearing LJs in those conditions but I would not have been clipped on. Given that the skipper may not have thought out his approach properly for the conditions, I think the remaining helmsman took the correct action in keeping the yacht out of more trouble and getting assistance very quickly. Whatever the gearshift/engine status of the mobo, it worked out well as quite obviously the mobo skipper knew what he was doing.

Tend to agree withe boat skipper. (Without being there!!!). I think he was right to stay away from the beach area. Those breaking seas would have put his boat and the people on board in almost certain catastrophic danger. Bless their hearts the crew in the water seemed not to be in immediate danger!!! I would like to assume the skipper made a sensible arrangement with the small and maneuverable mono to picke them up.

The cock up was entering the harbour, but again we don't know his options, and I can't comment on the state of tide at the time.

My 2p worth........

Mj

 

[30boat]

Looks like a Sadler 34? Companionway shut might have been a good idea...

And getting all those lines out of the water wouln't be bad either.Imagine a fouled prop in those waves.

 

[jimi]

I wondered how much of the knockdown was due to having the 2 guys on the foredeck? If they had'nt been there would the boat maybe have picked up speed quicker rather than sort of tripping over its forefoot when it dug in , or was the wave just too big?