Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

[nortada]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

As in most other EU countries, I expect pensioners get free health cover.

Do they give free health cover to all pensioners, including those who have recently moved to a EU country from countries not in the EU, seems unlikely to me
Seems unlikely to me

Sorry, I should have been more explicit.

As in most other EU countries, I expect pensioners from other EU countries get free health cover.

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Sorry, I should have been more explicit.

As in most other EU countries, I expect pensioners from other EU countries get free health cover.

Thanks for the clarification

 

[macd]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Thanks for the clarification

To add further clarification, it's not necessarily free health cover, but health cover at the same cost to the patient as levied on resident nationals of the country in question: basically, the local NHS set-up, which varies from country to country.

 

[Graham376]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Sorry, I should have been more explicit.

As in most other EU countries, I expect pensioners from other EU countries get free health cover.

macd has qualified it above and I suspect most States require non-working immigrants to either contribute or, have private cover. Let's just hope the free health care and their EHIC continue in Portugal when (if ever) we're no longer EU citizens.

P.S. If/when health care becomes terminal and you fall off your perch, has your will been amended to include this - The EU Succession Regulation (EU 650/2012). If not, your estate will be handled by country of residence rather than under UK law. Most EU States have laid down succession laws about who gets your estate.

 

[nortada]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

If/when health care becomes terminal and you fall off your perch, has your will been amended to include this - The EU Succession Regulation (EU 650/2012). If not, your estate will be handled by country of residence rather than under UK law. Most EU States have laid down succession laws about who gets your estate.

Interesting, what happens if (as in Portugal), it is possible to have dual residency?

See England/Wales and Ireland have not signed up to EU650/2012 but Scotland has.

 

[macd]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

P.S. If/when health care becomes terminal and you fall off your perch, has your will been amended to include this - The EU Succession Regulation (EU 650/2012). If not, your estate will be handled by country of residence rather than under UK law. Most EU States have laid down succession laws about who gets your estate.

A good point, Graham, overlooked so far. In Italy the inheritance default is an equal share amongst survivors/offspring (which, as in France and no doubt other places, is a reason many farms became so tiny). To avoid the default, whatever that might be, requires a will properly drawn up; or, in Italy and perhaps other countries, a "holographic will", which is simply handwritten. Google will describe the format.

 

[macd]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Interesting, what happens if (as in Portugal), it is possible to have dual residency?

Perhaps it's wherever your corpse has residence?

 

[Graham376]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Interesting, what happens if (as in Portugal), it is possible to have dual residency?

See England/Wales and Ireland have not signed up to EU650/2012 but Scotland has.

If you read the various links which come up on Google search, several spell out the position. It doesn't matter that UK hasn't signed up, what matters is whether your country of residence has. Portugal is a signatory and we had our UK solicitors draw up wills with the declaration that we wish our estate handled under UK inheritance law. Not sure how a UK registered boat would be handled, unlike Spain it isn't matriculated but, we also have property in Portugal. Portuguese inheritance law dictates IIRC that 50% goes to spouse and the other 50% is shared out between spouse and children, whether legitimate or not. Under normal circumstances, none can be excluded under a will, even if estranged.

 

[BigJoe]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

BigJoe, have you made any claims??

Yes, we actually took out 2 years ago, so we get annual MOT (preventative health tests) and some dental work, along with an MRI and some reabilitation work.

 

[One A.]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Yes, we actually took out 2 years ago, so we get annual MOT (preventative health tests) and some dental work, along with an MRI and some reabilitation work.

I only ask because we had some very expensive insurance thinking it would be the bees knees, but I fell foul in Turkey on a tecncality, and they refused to pay, with state health care that wouldn't happen.

 

[temptress]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

This is my understanding but having recently met a Brit sailor, who has residency in Portugal, Spain, France and Greece, understand it is possible to get residency in more than one EU country at the same time.

You can be a resident in Multiple countries. However, you need to consider that being a resident in a country usually means you have to pay tax in that country. You may, therefore, be subject to tax on the same income in multiple countries.

 

[nortada]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

You can be a resident in Multiple countries. However, you need to consider that being a resident in a country usually means you have to pay tax in that country. You may, therefore, be subject to tax on the same income in multiple countries.

I understand that a number of EU countries require you to resister if you intend to be in their country for more than 90 days and failure to comply can carry a significant fine.

However, those same countries will permit you to reside for up to 183 days per annum in their country with no tax implications. Moreover, some countries have treaties with the UK that precludes double taxation but if you stay longer than 183 days you may be required to submit a tax return on your income world-wide and have to pay tax on any earnings accrued in their country or not taxed elsewhere.

This is a generalisation and as every country it’s own policy on taxation, carries a health warning that you need to discretely investigate the situation in your host country.

For example, if as a resident in Portugal, you elect to be taxed in Portugal rather than the UK and are in receipt of a UK state pension and government pension, your state pension will be taxed in Portugal, whereas you UK government will be still taxed in the UK but not in Portugal. In effect this will mean you will be able to enjoy tax relief on these pensions in the respective countries, or to put it another way, cumulative tax relief.

For those interested, advice on Portuguese Tax is at https://www.blevinsfranks.com/news/article/Portugal-tax-landscape-2019. As you will see, Portuguese levels of taxation are lower than in the UK.

Possibly those with greater knowledge than me will be prepared to qualify my observations?

 

[macd]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

You can be a resident in Multiple countries. However, you need to consider that being a resident in a country usually means you have to pay tax in that country. You may, therefore, be subject to tax on the same income in multiple countries.

In practice, that's rarely true and a tad irresponsible to allege. First, residence and tax liability are not the same thing. But you can indeed be resident in multiple countries and you may conceivably have to pay tax in more than one of them. But, as Nortada writes, where double taxation treaties apply, you will not have to pay tax twice on the same income.

The UK has double taxation treaties with around 130 countries (or roughly two-thirds of all countries). I believe most, if not all, EU27 countries have double taxation treaties with the UK (and with each other**). Anyone interested enough can easily check here: https://assets.publishing.service.g...ent_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

The linked document also gives chapter and verse on which types of income are taxed where (i.e, country of residence or country where money earned, which are the two principle factors). It's possible, for instance, for an individual to have one pension taxable in the UK and another, of a different type, taxable in another country of residence.

The 183-day rule mentioned by Nortada is a guide, not an absolute. The main issue is where you are "established". This is rather fuzzy and hard to define, and best done so by an accountant.

** this page gives a precis of double taxation policy within the EU: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/taxes/double-taxation/index_en.htm

 

[nortada]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

In practice, that's rarely true and a tad irresponsible to allege. First, residence and tax liability are not the same thing. But you can indeed be resident in multiple countries and you may conceivably have to pay tax in more than one of them. But, as Nortada writes, where double taxation treaties apply, you will not have to pay tax twice on the same income.

The UK has double taxation treaties with around 130 countries (or roughly two-thirds of all countries). I believe most, if not all, EU27 countries have double taxation treaties with the UK (and with each other**). Anyone interested enough can easily check here: https://assets.publishing.service.g...ent_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

The linked document also gives chapter and verse on which types of income are taxed where (i.e, country of residence or country where money earned, which are the two principle factors). It's possible, for instance, for an individual to have one pension taxable in the UK and another, of a different type, taxable in another country of residence.

The 183-day rule mentioned by Nortada is a guide, not an absolute. The main issue is where you are "established". This is rather fuzzy and hard to define, and best done so by an accountant.

** this page gives a precis of double taxation policy within the EU: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/taxes/double-taxation/index_en.htm

And in some countries the rules regularly change, so even accountants can find themselves out-of-date on countries other than their own.

As would be expected, most of my comments are based on life in Portugal so possibly, I should add that to date Portugal takes a very laid back approach to visitor registration/residency and personal taxation - but post 31 Oct 19 that could all change (but I rather doubt it. ).

 

[Graham376]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

The 183-day rule mentioned by Nortada is a guide, not an absolute. The main issue is where you are "established". This is rather fuzzy and hard to define, and best done so by an accountant.

No problems in Portugal so far, neither of us has ever submitted a tax return and my wife is a citizen. She had a routine on-line enquiry a couple of months ago and when tax office was asked, was told (again) as no income there don't bother doing returns. I've never been asked. Possibly, if we had investments or savings interest there, the position may be different.

 

[nortada]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

No problems in Portugal so far, neither of us has ever submitted a tax return and my wife is a citizen. She had a routine on-line enquiry a couple of months ago and when tax office was asked, was told (again) as no income there don't bother doing returns. I've never been asked. Possibly, if we had investments or savings interest there, the position may be different.

This is the response we hear regularly. :encouragement:

And then there is the Golden Visa but that is outside the scope of this thread.

 

[lask]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Yes. We are in Greece, and hoping to get temporary residency to cover next winter. After that, knowing the Greeks, it will be old news and no-one will be bothered as long as we don't make a nuisance of ourselves.

All those countries listed above have entry restrictions at least as strict as the EU. What we need to know is which ones turn a blind eye. Not Montenegro or Turkey in my experience.

Yes ???

 

[alex2526]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Sorry to jump on this thread but cant see how to start a new one. I have the chance of buying a UK boat on a mooring berth in costa del sol. It does not sail so a floating apartment as such. Any advice as to what I need to look out for esp with bretix ? thanks

 

[nortada]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Sorry to jump on this thread but cant see how to start a new one. I have the chance of buying a UK boat on a mooring berth in costa del sol. It does not sail so a floating apartment as such. Any advice as to what I need to look out for esp with bretix ? thanks

Welcome to the YBW Forum

Possibly you want to go to :- http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...U-Run-Up-To-Friday-29th-March-2019-amp-Beyond.

There are loads of other threads on this topic on this forum but because nothing is happening on the Brexit Front, these threads lie dormant.

As a starter, you could consider registering for temporary residence (5 years) that may smooth your path should Brexit ever happen. Again there is loads about this on the link above.

Although, the boat is in Portugal, as a family, we have property in Andalusia so have bit of a handle on events across the Iberian Peninsular.

 

[One A.]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Sorry to jump on this thread but cant see how to start a new one. I have the chance of buying a UK boat on a mooring berth in costa del sol. It does not sail so a floating apartment as such. Any advice as to what I need to look out for esp with bretix ? thanks

You might want to look into weather you need a licence, even if the boats not going anywhere.