Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

[Graham376]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

On the Portuguese residency card does it say you country of origin ie UK? And does it also say something like EU member?

It says Nationality UK & Permanent Citizen of the European Union. Told this isn't a problem after we leave as residence status will remain.

 

[One A.]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

It says Nationality UK & Permanent Citizen of the European Union. Told this isn't a problem after we leave as residence status will remain.

OK thanks for that.

 

[Seven Spades]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

How? Do you lose any Uk rights etc, eg healthcare

You lose your UK healthcare rights of you are out f the country for more than 3 months.

 

[macd]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

You lose your UK healthcare rights of you are out f the country for more than 3 months.

I'm happy to report that that's old news. It used to be the case that there was such an arbitrary limit with doubtful legal support. (I think it's variously been three and six months). The test now is "ordinarily resident".

This link takes you to the actual test used by Dept of Health staff to determine such status and thus eligibility for free NHS care: https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/736849/Ordinary_residence_tool.pdf

Note in particular: "a person can be ordinarily resident from the first day they arrive in the UK if they have genuinely come to settle for the time being."

And: "not having a settled home here does not necessarily mean a person is not ordinarily resident."

And: "Temporary or occasional absences from the UK will not prevent a person from being ordinarily resident, including extended or regular periods of travel for pleasure."
(My bolds)

 

[Yangosat]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Thanks For that MacD,
a most useful read that I shall engrave into marble so I can slap the self important GP who kicked me off his register and then told me he was chair of the complaints board if I wanted to do anything about it.
<evil grin>
;-)

 

[UFO-0]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Go to Portugal, get temporary residence for 5 years for €15 and you can stay as long as you like

So does Portuguese Temporary Residency Allow you unlimited access to other European countries as well?

 

[Graham376]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

So does Portuguese Temporary Residency Allow you unlimited access to other European countries as well?

From everything published so far, no it doesn't.

 

[macd]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

From everything published so far, no it doesn't.

Exactly so, in the event of a no-deal Brexit. This has been clear since the agreement on the 'divorce' phase in late '2017. British nationals will be limited to 90 days in 180 in the EU27 block of countries, except the Republic of Ireland and the one in which they are formally resident. (The former though arrangements which long pre-date the EU, which both Ireland and the UK have stated will persist "in all circumstances".)

 

[nortada]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Exactly so, in the event of a no-deal Brexit. This has been clear since the agreement on the 'divorce' phase in late '2017. British nationals will be limited to 90 days in 180 in the EU27 block of countries, except the Republic of Ireland and the one in which they are formally resident. (The former though arrangements which long pre-date the EU, which both Ireland and the UK have stated will persist "in all circumstances".)

This is my understanding but having recently met a Brit sailor, who has residency in Portugal, Spain, France and Greece, understand it is possible to get residency in more than one EU country at the same time.

 

[One A.]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

This is my understanding but having recently met a Brit sailor, who has residency in Portugal, Spain, France and Greece, understand it is possible to get residency in more than one EU country at the same time.

Did the 'Brit sailor' say where he was tax resident?

 

[Peter]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Can you do the same thing for Spain as described for Portugal? (temp residency)

 

[macd]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Can you do the same thing for Spain as described for Portugal? (temp residency)

Not only can you, but after remaining in Spain for more than three months, you're required to. This is true of most, if not all, EU countries, although the process seems to be particularly user-friendly in Portugal. Information about the process in all EU countries here: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...ormalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

Strictly speaking, you are not applying for temporary residency, since as an EU citizen you currently have that as of right (subject to the conditions indicated). You are simply registering your presence as a person exercising that right.

Note the Article 50/Brexit caveats at the head of the page.

 

[Graham376]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Can you do the same thing for Spain as described for Portugal? (temp residency)

From what I understand, when obtaining Spanish residency the boat has to be matriculated, whereas in Portugal it doesn't.

 

[nortada]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Can you do the same thing for Spain as described for Portugal? (temp residency)

My understanding is yes and there are plenty of liveaboards in Spain but not sure if you can use a marina as a residential address.

Did the 'Brit sailor' say where he was tax resident?

Didn’t ask and after 6 months in Portugal, they have now moved on but my impression was that they were traveling on British passports and were British tax residents.

From what I understand, when obtaining Spanish residency the boat has to be matriculated, whereas in Portugal it doesn't.

Unlike Portugal, as a liveaboard in Spain, not sure if your boat (in a marina) can be a residential address for registration purposes so if checked afloat you are a ‘tourist’ and use another way (renting property ashore?) to get an address when registering.

In Spain matriculation could become a problem if you were checked on board with the boat on a long term marina berthing contract. But this is not a Brexit specific issue.

Possibly a liveaboard in Spain can give greater clarification.

 

[macd]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Unlike Portugal, as a liveaboard in Spain, not sure if your boat (in a marina) can be a residential address for registration purposes so if checked afloat you are a tourist.

It's probably rather moot in practical terms, but there is actually no requirement to have, much less prove, an address. This is true of both the generic terms for registration published by the EU, and those specified by Spain (which can be seen here: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...ties/registering-residence/spain/index_en.htm

The EU guidance list of the process and documents/evidence required nowhere mentions address, and concludes with "You do not need to provide any other documents."

After all, I'm aware of no law in any of the countries concerned making it illegal to be of no fixed abode.

When confronted with an official in a town hall, however, things are often different. We were certainly expected to show proof of address in Italy.

 

[nortada]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Not only can you, but after remaining in Spain for more than three months, you're required to. This is true of most, if not all, EU countries, although the process seems to be particularly user-friendly in Portugal. Information about the process in all EU countries here: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citize...ormalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

Strictly speaking, you are not applying for temporary residency, since as an EU citizen you currently have that as of right (subject to the conditions indicated). You are simply registering your presence as a person exercising that right.

Note the Article 50/Brexit caveats at the head of the page.

As it says on the application form, in Portugal, strictly speaking you are registering for and getting temporary (5year) residency, with all of the privileges that that gives. :encouragement:

Nothing to do with Brexit, it is believed, whatever the outcome of Brexit, in Portugal, the terms of temporary residency will not change.

If it looks like duck and quacks, it is a duck.

 

[macd]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Nothing to do with Brexit, it is believed, whatever the outcome of Brexit, in Portugal, the terms of temporary residency will not change.

Overall, it's nothing to do with Brexit in the sense that residence is available (but not by right) for any third country nationals. As you'll be aware, Italy, along with Portugal, Spain and several other EU countries has announced and in some cases already legislated to allow UK citizens to preserve their residence status after a no-deal Brexit**. However, in the cases of Italy and, I suspect many others, this automatic right will only cover individuals who have at least got the residence ball formally rolling at the time of Brexit (or end of transition period, if there is one). If Portugal has extended its welcome beyond that, then that's excellent news.

Even after Brexit, UK citizens will enjoy the same opportunities to settle in the EU27 as third country nationals do now (which is to say that it will be discretionary rather than of right and rather harder to obtain).

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck.

A useful dictum (excuse my edit: that's the form I know). As is: "Hope is the thing with feathers"

P.S. ** This page (which I think has been linked before on here) spells out on a country-by-country basis the efforts made so far to sustain residence rights in the event of no-deal: https://ec.europa.eu/info/brexit/br...dence-rights-uk-nationals-eu-member-states_en

 

[Graham376]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

As it says on the application form, in Portugal, strictly speaking you are registering for and getting temporary (5year) residency, with all of the privileges that that gives. :encouragement:

Nothing to do with Brexit, it is believed, whatever the outcome of Brexit, in Portugal, the terms of temporary residency will not change.

If it looks like duck and quacks, it is a duck.

The terms may not change as far as the Portuguese are concerned but remember, you have been granted residence whilst a Citizen of the EU. Whether UK citizens will still be able to obtain residence as easily when no longer citizens, we will have to wait and see.

 

[macd]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Whether UK citizens will still be able to obtain residence as easily when no longer citizens, we will have to wait and see.

We may have to wait, but I think seeing this bit of the future is fairly clear. Ultimately UK citizens who don't have existing residence credentials will become simply third country nationals. In which case see the "Even after Brexit.." par in post #37. Anything else is a unicorn eating a cake

 

[nortada]

Re: Anyone else beginning to panic as to where to winter, 2019/20 if no deal Bre><it.

Overall, it's nothing to do with Brexit in the sense that residence is available (but not by right) for any third country nationals. As you'll be aware, Italy, along with Portugal, Spain and several other EU countries has announced and in some cases already legislated to allow UK citizens to preserve their residence status after a no-deal Brexit. However, in the cases of Italy and, I suspect many others, this automatic right will only cover individuals who have at least got the residence ball formally rolling at the time of Brexit (or end of transition period, if there is one). If Portugal has extended its welcome beyond that, then that's excellent news.

Even after Brexit, UK citizens will enjoy the same opportunities to settle in the EU27 as third country nationals do now (which is to say that it will be discretionary rather than of right and rather harder to obtain).

A useful dictum (excuse my edit: that's the form I know). As is: "Hope is the thing with feathers"

The terms may not change as far as the Portuguese are concerned but remember, you have been granted residence whilst a Citizen of the EU. Whether UK citizens will still be able to obtain residence as easily when no longer citizens, we will have to wait and see.

All true but I am unaware of any 3rd world yottie being refused registration; especially as it is a legal requirement (often ignored by EU citizens). Possibly, registration is embedded in the visa application?

Of course, currently Brits (in keeping with all EU citizens) do not require visas and there is some suggestions that this will still exist post Brexit.

Only time will tell.