Any insurance recommendations (NOT Y Insurance)

[petem]

Pete, the policy is on their website. That bit was cut from it.

Topsail, never actually confirmed the alternative boat issue, they just gave an example of a payout, which does not answer the question.

Where? I can't see if from here - motorboat insurance tidal ?

 

[petem]

Yes similar Topsail rhetoric to my question on gradual deterioration and as Hurricane pointed out referencing JFM “it is the ACTUAL words that matter”

Absolutely - it's the policy conditions that matter (not a 'policy summary').

 

[Scubadoo]

Scubado, I understand where the insurers are coming from, as they have faced countless claims for total loss due to a single skin fitting failing. Did you have a sinking? or just water damage? If you have records you could possibly have proved that this was a sudden change. Its not just Marina electrics that are the prolem, but also a nearby yachts leaking electricity like a sieve!
This started when the RCD came out and specified a type of brass/bronze for seacocks. In the few years after that there were countless claims - including my Uncles 2 year old Ben 4.77. The engine seacosk just fell off when I was closing it - luckily I just rammed a peg in (sensible attached to each cock). It turned out that the RCD specified the wrong material. Even Halberg had the problem!
Now they expect a proper inspection at least every year, exercising each cock, and you will need a record to prove it. In the past I have scraped the external flange looking for pink copper, and scraped and tapped the inside - valve and stem. A dull sound is a worry. Also vital to check pipe fitting - which should be double clamped and turnied off when you leave a vessel - except of course cockpit drains.

I no not think that Latent defect has anything to do with this, as it really comes under YOUR duty as a yacht owner to maintain your yacht in a seaworthy condition. For all our sakes and premiums, I welcome pressure by the insurers to teach owners risk management!

Pretty much agree with what you have said. No I didn't experience a sinking or water damage, but had damage to the outdrive. I also had evidence to show it was a change from the norm and supporting maintenance records, but Gjw simply weren't interested. Funny you mention nearby yachts leaking electricity, after the event the new liveaboard next to me said he had electrical issues so may have been that. Anyway my point was to be wary of gjw policy and other insurers regarding this subject.

 

[dune16]

Any idea how I access the Motorboat versions from this page - motorboat insurance tidal ?

Doesn't seem to have a link to a motorboat sample.

 

[superheat6k]

Sounds like a minefield to me. The craftinsure policy is by far the cheapest for me and I may just take a gamble!

Well all I can say is that CraftInsure stumped up with out any delays or nonsense when my stbd engine seized in August. They even paid me my own labour time. This was my first ever claim - I cannot fault their service. The cheques came from Zurich.

 

[jrudge]

There is a lot of anti Y sentiment

This as far as I know has nothing to do with cover or claims but premiums.

Specifically that they came into the market on a white horse with a good policy at favourable rates then put the rates up.

The increases were large as the market was going up and they needed to make up for the loss leader rates.

Now Topsail seem to have put the icing on the cake by apparently put on a large premium increase to another forum member on a recent thread.

Most of us are not using our boats, perceive claims are low and see no market reason for more increases. The assumption is Topsail are just looking to milk the customer base - as such people want to leave.

Pete. You have a connection at Topsail so maybe he wants to reply to this. If indeed they do a further round of increases when Barry in essence said there would be no more then they will indeed see their base vanish on renewal.

 

[petem]

There is a lot of anti Y sentiment

This as far as I know has nothing to do with cover or claims but premiums.

Specifically that they came into the market on a white horse with a good policy at favourable rates then put the rates up.

The increases were large as the market was going up and they needed to make up for the loss leader rates.

Now Topsail seem to have put the icing on the cake by apparently put on a large premium increase to another forum member on a recent thread.

Most of us are not using our boats, perceive claims are low and see no market reason for more increases. The assumption is Topsail are just looking to milk the customer base - as such people want to leave.

Pete. You have a connection at Topsail so maybe he wants to reply to this. If indeed they do a further round of increases when Barry in essence said there would be no more then they will indeed see their base vanish on renewal.

The quote I had from Topsail was around £100 more than my Y premium.

Med boats haven't had much use this year but the Solent was absolutely rammed all summer as far as I know so it's swings and roundabouts.

I discussed premiums with the guy that runs Topsail and he said he didn't buy Barry's book just to lose all of his customers by hiking up premiums. But he did say that Amlin were making underwriting losses so some premium increases are inevitable to make the business viable. And where their own policy wasn't competitive they would shop around for a better deal. Obviously they are a different company so we can hardly expect them to keep to Barry's word about further increases.

I certainly didn't get the impression that they were looking to milk customers.

 

[jrudge]

Snag is the only quote we know of is another post where the premium went from £500 odd to £900 odd

I don’t buy the making up underwriting losses line as that has been trolled out for the past 2 years and premiums have basically doubled. And for what it is worth ( nothing !) Barry said it was over.

Given the scale of increases the premium must now represent the risk give or take - and certainly not another 80% hike

 

[Blue Sunray]

Pete. You have a connection at Topsail so maybe he wants to reply to this. If indeed they do a further round of increases when Barry in essence said there would be no more then they will indeed see their base vanish on renewal.

I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if he chose to reply on here after last time, not intended as a criticism of him but more of the (IIRC) more than usually dodgy moderation that went on on that thread.

 

[tetleys]

There is a lot of anti Y sentiment

This as far as I know has nothing to do with cover or claims but premiums.

Specifically that they came into the market on a white horse with a good policy at favourable rates then put the rates up.

The increases were large as the market was going up and they needed to make up for the loss leader rates.

Now Topsail seem to have put the icing on the cake by apparently put on a large premium increase to another forum member on a recent thread.

Most of us are not using our boats, perceive claims are low and see no market reason for more increases. The assumption is Topsail are just looking to milk the customer base - as such people want to leave.

Pete. You have a connection at Topsail so maybe he wants to reply to this. If indeed they do a further round of increases when Barry in essence said there would be no more then they will indeed see their base vanish on renewal.

this is copy of my post on the other insurance thread which I posted yesterday, the increase does include excess waiver as an option so I could actually pay slightly less than current policy with Y if I choose not to take it.


In fairness to Topsail my renewal has come through , £1260 last year with Y and renewal £1380. Am just checking the cover but all looks good to me unless anyone has
better alternatives

Cheers
Tetley's

 

[Hooligan]

Guys. These are brokers. Amlins have suffered quite big losses over the past few years according to people in the industry I know. This insurance has been loss making. Ergo premiums are rising. This should surprise no one. Example 45 boats just for damages in the recent storm in Greece. I am sure that quite a few of that damage was avoidable - judging by my reading of the blogs. The simple fact is that we all depend on each other. If I am an idiot and that results in a massive write off then you all eventually pay. So the best way to keep premiums down is if we all drive or sail responsibly so that when the proverbial happens it truly is an accident

 

[KINGFISHER 8]

I'm thinking of looking around now having been with Y for years. I tried a couple of UK companies but got no further than "Can't insure a French registered boat" - which Y have done for years! Anyone use a French insurer and if so what are their premiums like?

 

[Chris_Robb]

Snag is the only quote we know of is another post where the premium went from £500 odd to £900 odd

I don’t buy the making up underwriting losses line as that has been trolled out for the past 2 years and premiums have basically doubled. And for what it is worth ( nothing !) Barry said it was over.

Given the scale of increases the premium must now represent the risk give or take - and certainly not another 80% hike

I was very happy with Barry at Y. He understood the terms and conditions where the insurers gave themselves massive get out clauses - especially on Agreed Value (Nav and Gen) needed to compensate for bad underwriting! and specifically corrosion clauses that were very onerous - but of course it wont apply to you sir! But I do agree that Owners should be MORE responsible for the maintenance of a yacht and skin fittings are an essential safely check - and I really dont want to pay the increase in premiums due to this! So I try to work on the basis - this wont happen to me - (famous last words, springs to mind.)

I had a good quote from GJW whose quote system is very easy and very comprehensive. Their corrosion clause is "strong" but should not deter people who actually check them properly each year. It would be interesting to know what checks should be done here. I have my own ones I do each year - but you can always learn new tricks. Luckily my boat is out of the water for 9 months of the year which makes it a lot easier for me.

As for the comment on the claims in this years Medicane, it was interesting to see that the cause of many of the mass wreckings were the failure of some - notable Poseidon - to show the coming danger until it was too late. Poseiden did not pick it up till Thursday , and then it was not bad, where as Ventusky and others picked it up very accurately on the Tuesday morning. The result - Ag Eufemia had charter boats in it - open to the south east......

So I hope lessons have been learnt, like looking far wider on a graphic displays of more distant weather approaching and not to use point based forecasts for your town.

 

[Portofino]

There are other players .
Velos Insurance - The Leading Marine Insurance Providers in the UK
Another is the Italian Generali here Assicurazioni Generali | Airmic
They do leisure boats you will have to do your own digging .My boat came with a file of old Generali certificates when i bought it left on board inc one current.

Just outside the marina in Loano there is a Generali office with leisure boat pics in the window .I keep meaning to pop in but with lockdown etc .The locals use it .
So for France just ask other berthholders or a boat sales / broker .

eg in La Napoule I am sure any of the dealers will have a contact for anything boaty be it a Aircon guy , a windless guy , a diver , a insurance co or what ever ?
It’s a global business as is boat building .

 

[PlanB]

Although I sold my boat last year, I used Bishop Skinner for 15 years both in the UK and when I lived aboard in Spain. No problems with coverage at all.

 

[jrudge]

Bear in mind that was pre Brexit and no insurers no longer have passport rights. Y set up a French company so they could continue and I suspect some others have, and some have not.

 

[Chris_Robb]

The quote I had from Topsail was around £100 more than my Y premium.

Med boats haven't had much use this year but the Solent was absolutely rammed all summer as far as I know so it's swings and roundabouts.

I discussed premiums with the guy that runs Topsail and he said he didn't buy Barry's book just to lose all of his customers by hiking up premiums. But he did say that Amlin were making underwriting losses so some premium increases are inevitable to make the business viable. And where their own policy wasn't competitive they would shop around for a better deal. Obviously they are a different company so we can hardly expect them to keep to Barry's word about further increases.

I certainly didn't get the impression that they were looking to milk customers.

Pete, Topsail have finally confirmed that they do have a special contract - and it IS the agreed value one without the wording after it of "Or replace with similar yachts", so the contract is now acceptable - and is quite a good contract. The usual worry about the corrosion element is dealt with, but making the full annual checking of the seacocks and anodes central to the clause - which I totally agree with.

I await the results of my survey in Greece - on Tuesday 14th, and can then agree the agreed value cover..... and get new quotes....

 

[DavidJ]

Pete, Topsail have finally confirmed that they do have a special contract - and it IS the agreed value one without the wording after it of "Or replace with similar yachts", so the contract is now acceptable

Is this a special endorsement that you have to have on your cover.
I can’t see it in their policy document

https://www.topsailinsurance.com/images/General-policy-pdfs/Topsail_PDS_and_Wording_NG_v4.pdf

 

[petem]

Is this a special endorsement that you have to have on your cover.
I can’t see it in their policy document

https://www.topsailinsurance.com/images/General-policy-pdfs/Topsail_PDS_and_Wording_NG_v4.pdf

As I've said before, what Chris is describing as a "special contract" is the standard Topsail policy and is based on an agreed value and does not allow them to fob you off with a similar boat. I even had Topsail confirm this and posted their reply verbatim here over the weekend.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Is this a special endorsement that you have to have on your cover.
I can’t see it in their policy document

https://www.topsailinsurance.com/images/General-policy-pdfs/Topsail_PDS_and_Wording_NG_v4.pdf

David - its on page 4 - I have cut and pasted it below:
Important information
Taking care of Your vessel
Remember that your policy is not a maintenance contract.
It is up to you to ensure that all measures are taken to
maintain your vessel and machinery.
Important Notice
The amount we have insured your vessel for is the agreed
value of the vessel.
If the information you have provided about the value of the
vessel (including the price you bought it for) is false your
insurance cover may not be valid and we may refuse to pay
your claim.
The terms of your policy and premium are based on the
information you have provided to us. You must ensure that
all facts given are correct and you must contact us
immediately if there are any changes to the information you
have provided or at any time you discover that the
information is incorrect.
Examples include, but are not limited to:
• changes in the condition, market value or use of the
vessel;
• criminal charges or convictions of any person having an
interest in the vessel; and
• change in the mooring location or type of mooring for
the vessel.
A failure to provide full and accurate information may
invalidate your policy and may result in all or part of a claim
not being paid. If you are in any doubt please contact us.

I also highlighted the clauses where you have to inform them of a change - I did not see the ref to Market Value here, which troubles me when the chips are down..... Any thoughts Pete? My own feeling is that - if the market dived - as some predict the european market may do - then you hav eto inform them of the change. Now I am not certain that I can comply with that as it conflicts with the Agreed Value terms.