Anchors. I hate to do this but...

[snowleopard]

****** ****! Now we've got 3 of them at it. All we need now is Hylas for a full set. Let's all sneak off and leave them to fight it out.

 

[Malo37]

Just a couple of observations:
1) in the various tests quoted some seem to be anchor designs and some are brand names eg How then can we compare cqr (design) with Sarca (brand name with more than one design) unless we see technical details of the specific anchor under test?
2) there must be a lot of profit in the anchor manufacturing trade to see this level of bias and agression.

 

[craigsmith]

1) in the various tests quoted some seem to be anchor designs and some are brand names eg How then can we compare cqr (design) with Sarca (brand name with more than one design) unless we see technical details of the specific anchor under test?

Well the CQR is a 'brand' too if you put it like that, the design is copied by multitudes and is long out of patent. Even worse is the genericization of the name "Danforth", although technically still a trademark applying to the genuine brand out of Georgia USA - most "Danforths" are not really. The Sarca is a unique design and brand, still in patent I believe, and has been joined by the Excel (which is a Delta variant) more recently from the same manufacturer. Confusing? Well I sympathize but not sure there's much to be done about it

 

[Ubergeekian]

Lets rephrase that then, ask cruisers who swapped from a cqr to a new gen when they started appearing on the scene and see what the answers are.

Who's going to admit that they wasted the money?

 

[Ubergeekian]

I think it's unfortunate when a manufacturer who has no inhouse design talent, and produces only knock-offs of others' designs...

This from the lad who whimpers about "disparagement" at every opportunity. Remind me, dear boy, did the Rocna appear before or after the Bügel?

 

[Rigger Mortice]

This from the lad who whimpers about "disparagement" at every opportunity. Remind me, dear boy, did the Rocna appear before or after the Bügel?

One day this lad will find himself on the wrong side of a very expensive court case. He will just go too far and, I suspect, he is already getting close to the edge.

 

[idpnd]

This is correct.

What rocnas just break like that do they?

Is it because they're made in China?

​

 

[Rigger Mortice]

What rocnas just break like that do they?

Is it because they're made in China?

​

Probably because the flukes are cast rather than fabricated.

 

[Conachair]

Who's going to admit that they wasted the money?

You're clutching at straws now.

I had a cqr. It dragged. I didn't have any confidence in it. I bought a rocna. It doesn't drag. i have confidence in it.

Spend a few evenings with cruisers in Horta or any other crossroads and you'll hear the same story.

New gen anchors are very good.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

You're clutching at straws now.
.

I think you are missing the point. Nobody is denying that some of the modern anchors are good, but so are many of the other products which have been around for many years. The reason for the antipathy towards Rocna is the unpleasant way in which Rocna, in the form of Craig, conducts itself. It is negative, vindictive and ultimately presents his company in a poor light. So much so that some, myself included, would simply not consider purchasing his product.

You are obviously one of the converted. Nothing wrong with that.

Out of interest, was your CQR genuine or a copy? What weight? Which Rocna did you replace it with?

 

[idpnd]

This video made me feel really sad about my 50 kg cqr competing with a chinese-made buegel copy here (it looks just like it would do that as well)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmGAckf69pE

I have since purchased a 40 kg danforth look-a-like

In fact, it's a Klipp anchor as used by big ships. Very affordable (EUR 200 for 40 kg of EU made steel)!

 

[Conachair]

Out of interest, was your CQR genuine or a copy? What weight? Which Rocna did you replace it with?

Genuine cqr, 35lb. 20Kg rocna. The rocna seems to be sized for a smaller boat than the cqr, but I suspect that is due to more conservative sizing data from rocna.

I got it a while ago when they were cheaper, not sure which one I'd go for now, probably another rocna. They work. Going ashore without worrying about the boat is much higher up my list of requirements of an anchor than how someone comes across on a net forum.

 

[Tradewinds]

I got it a while ago when they were cheaper, not sure which one I'd go for now, probably another rocna. They work. Going ashore without worrying about the boat is much higher up my list of requirements of an anchor than how someone comes across on a net forum.

But I used to go ashore without worrying about my boat too - sometimes for a few days at a time!

CQR 45lb

Travelling full-time '93 - '99. When stopped, usually at anchor.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Genuine cqr, 35lb. 20Kg rocna. The rocna seems to be sized for a smaller boat than the cqr, but I suspect that is due to more conservative sizing data from rocna.

I got it a while ago when they were cheaper, not sure which one I'd go for now, probably another rocna. They work. Going ashore without worrying about the boat is much higher up my list of requirements of an anchor than how someone comes across on a net forum.

I certainly agree that we might as well make our boating as worry free as possible but I'm not convinced that comparing a 35lb anchor with a 20kg (i.e. 44lb) Rocna is a fair comparison.

Funnily enough, both you and Tradewinds have ended up being content with similar sized anchors. Maybe there's a message in that?

 

[Pye_End]

You're clutching at straws now.

I had a cqr. It dragged. I didn't have any confidence in it. I bought a rocna. It doesn't drag. i have confidence in it.

Spend a few evenings with cruisers in Horta or any other crossroads and you'll hear the same story.

New gen anchors are very good.

Ditto.

25lb genuine CQR v's 10Kg Rocna. Chalk and cheese.

Plenty of others on here have said the same on here.

Have yet to read of an owner who has been disappointed with a new gen anchor, but plenty disappointed with old ones.

 

[Conachair]

Have yet to read of an owner who has been disappointed with a new gen anchor, but plenty disappointed with old ones.

Exactly.

But that's the real world.

Forums are different.

Time to retire from this thread.

 

[Tradewinds]

Exactly.

But that's the real world.

Forums are different.

Time to retire from this thread.

I wasn't in the real world

 

[Mansonanchors55]

Again I must apologise to readers and hopefully this will be our last post which should expose Craig's inadequacies.

They don't know this to be true, but it's a red herring argument. I'm not a welder and don't claim to be. Peter, the Rocna designer, and the production engineering people involved in Rocna fabrication, however, have extensive relevent experience. .

Craig I am glad that you have admitted that nor have you ever welded anything or know anything about welding. Peter is a boatbuilder and hasn't got 40 years of metalworking experience has he Craig? Be honest with the readers.

Yes. .

Who in Holdfast or Rocna has this mythical experience? Enlighten the readers as to the credentials of your acclaimed expertise.

Why would they? A strawman argument: Rocna has nothing to do with Lloyd's..

Fair enough, so, you're RINA "approved" do you have an RINA approved welders under the employ of Rocna, Holdfast or at the facility in China? Whilst we are fixing mistruths, it isn't "your" production facility, merely the company you get to build your product. Is the facility RINA approved, as, since it is a casting facility, your anchors aren't individually approved unless the facility is RINA approved, which it isn't is it Craig.

There's a significant difference between valid and sensible measures to reduce costing, and those which result in serious flaws in construction, a weaker product, and poorer performance. .

Ah, like the "sensible measures" behind welding a plate steel shank onto a cast fluke. That Craig is Metallurgy 101, you simply don't weld plate onto cast steel.

I know it's just an attempt at waving away anything they don't like hearing by way of condescension, but I'm not 24. Unfortunately not very close to it either anymore .

Then Craig, why don't you enlighten all these seasoned sailors with extensive cruising experience and anchoring experience exactly how old you really are. Be honest now.

This is correct. With a tug capable of a 20 tonne bollard pull, and you're using gear sized for 100 kg anchors, if you hang an anchor up on something on the bottom, and tell the operator to keep increasing the force until something lets go, well something eventually lets go. I would like to know if Manson also know about the cracked welds on the Supreme we were testing, the result of the upper plate of the thin laminated fluke distorting? .

Yawn, why then Craig when we tested Manson anchors three weeks later, on the same tug using the same equipment none of our anchors bent? and you call Manson product inferior yet you freely admit you know nothing about welding? By the way, you still owe Thomson the second half of your bill that you never paid because you were so unhappy with the test results and blamed them.

Their 'Ray' Bruce copy is not cast as the design is intended to be and massive compromises ensue. .

You again so freely display your ignorance. Please explain how this is remotely true? We use a higher grade/mpa of steel to build the Ray Anchor than the cast Bruce. Our product is actually stronger than cast product. You are just a liar Craig. What are these massive compromises?


Hopefully I don't have to reply again as you will be honest, and when you're honest about our product there is nothing negative to say which will render you speechless which will give everyone on this site a little rest from the bile you spread.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

. Peter is a boatbuilder and hasn't got 40 years of metalworking experience has he Craig? .

That's a generous way of putting it. "Was a boatbuilder" would be more accurate. Peter jumped ship (pun intended) from the boat building business in 1978; shortly afterwards the business went into receivership.

He hasn't been a boatbuilder for 33 years. Technology, and welding, have come on a bit since then.

 

[craigsmith]

I've been wondering if you had an axe to grind Rigger, it certainly has seemed that way - now I have an insight. Care to disclose who you are?

Your post appears wilfully misinformed concerning Peter, much as is Manson's above. I'm sure the irony of Manson accusing me of disparagement while clearly prepared to utterly fabricate things concerning Rocna is not lost on most.