Anchors. I hate to do this but...

[Quandary]

To go back to the OP s question
I took the trouble to compare the Rocna and the Manson Supreme carefully before I bought taking my boat right to the Scottish Agents for both. They are very similar, the Manson was a lot cheaper but the assembly looked better and the galvanising seemed heavier but to be honest there was little to choose but price, and the 'Craig post' factor. I have not used Manson in anything approaching extreme conditions yet and so far it has not performed noticeably better in setting or holding than my Delta which is a lot easier to handle through the pulpit for stowing.
However from what I have heard and read I suspect the Spade is better than either but the UK price is just too ridiculous to contemplate.

 

[Conachair]

I believe that any company who needs to spend so much time trying to slag off the competition has no confidence in their own product.
Allan

Ask pretty much any cruiser with a rocna about confidence in the product and you'll find plenty. Probably same goes for a spade or manson.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I hear it's a killer anchor.

- W

GROAN!!!!

 

[Allan]

I think Craig is Peter Smiths son. Peter Smith I think invented the Rocna. I'm not going to say this is definitely the case, because I'm not that interested in the product as I still have absolute faith in my CQR.

No, that cannot be correct, I quote "Testing in the above material is all independent." You must be mistaken, nobody would risk the reputation of their company by claiming tests by their family members were independent, would they?
Allan

 

[snooks]

However from what I have heard and read I suspect the Spade is better than either but the UK price is just too ridiculous to contemplate.

The Spade is expensive, but when it's blowing old boots, it seems cheap for confidence.

Yes it is expensive, but for me I think it worked out at roughly the same price as 20 nights in a (south coast) marina.

It paid for itself in the first year...And it fits in my anchor locker and on the bow roller

 

[john_morris_uk]

The Spade is expensive, but when it's blowing old boots, it seems cheap for confidence.

Yes it is expensive, but for me I think it worked out at roughly the same price as 20 nights in a (south coast) marina.

It paid for itself in the first year...And it fits in my anchor locker and on the bow roller

We bought ours second hand (the seller was getting another oversize Spade for his world trip.) It was still expensive, but its paid for iteself.

I still maintain that probably all of the modern anchors are better than some of the older generation. Its a bit nip and tuck between them - and perhaps its a matter of what you can afford and what fits your boat.

Notwithstanding all the above, we anchored for years with a CQR and it worked fine most of the time...

 

[30boat]

Being so similar to the Rocna the Supreme must be good.When I needed an anchor I made my own Rocna copy.Would never buy the real thing for obvious reasons but would buy the Supreme.
Mine works very well by the way.

 

[FullCircle]

You all bang on about the cost, but my Genuine 35lb CQR is around £700, but a Manson seems to be £450 for 35lb?
Rocna similar money.

So why does everyone say these are expensive options?

 

[cliff]

It's already passed as far as Rocna and me are concerned.

+1 - The "Ignore" feature is quite useful

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

5th generation anchor

According to the products own website, this is the next thing on from Rocna etc.

http://www.navstore.com/detail.aspx?ID=1906

Never heard of it.
Never seen it.

Anyone know anything about it?

 

[DavyMac]

You all bang on about the cost, but my Genuine 35lb CQR is around £700, but a Manson seems to be £450 for 35lb?
Rocna similar money.

So why does everyone say these are expensive options?

Because a 35lb Delta costs £160.

The CQR is very expensive, but this is substantially explained by its construction - it's forged, have moving parts and is, I think, made in the UK. Whether it's worth the cost is another matter of course, and one on which I don't wish to comment.

The Rocna, Manson and Spade are all made in lower cost locations (especially the Rocna (China) and the Spade (Tunisia?)), none have moving parts and so far as I am aware they are not forged either. The Spade does have quite a complex construction though with the way it is weighted.

The Rocna in particular appears to be manufactured in a pretty similar way to the Delta and in the same location so presumably costs are similar (though Lewmar may well sell more Deltas as they are original equipment for a lot of boats, so there may be savings there). The price is difference is £300 or so, which can only be explained by (i) the lack of volume, (ii) more recent R&D which is still to be amortised and (iii) a higher profit margin.

Of course it is for the buyer to decide if the additional cost is worth it, but anchor for anchor they are relatively expensive.

 

[fishermantwo]

Because a 35lb Delta costs £160.

The CQR is very expensive, but this is substantially explained by its construction - it's forged, have moving parts and is, I think, made in the UK. Whether it's worth the cost is another matter of course, and one on which I don't wish to comment.

The Rocna, Manson and Spade are all made in lower cost locations (especially the Rocna (China) and the Spade (Tunisia?)), none have moving parts and so far as I am aware they are not forged either. The Spade does have quite a complex construction though with the way it is weighted.

The Rocna in particular appears to be manufactured in a pretty similar way to the Delta and in the same location so presumably costs are similar (though Lewmar may well sell more Deltas as they are original equipment for a lot of boats, so there may be savings there). The price is difference is £300 or so, which can only be explained by (i) the lack of volume, (ii) more recent R&D which is still to be amortised and (iii) a higher profit margin.

Of course it is for the buyer to decide if the additional cost is worth it, but anchor for anchor they are relatively expensive.

The Ultra seems to be the most expensive. Its an improved spade with a shank that is more suitable for bow roller storage which is where most anchors spend most of their lives. 12 kg Ultra is $1900 here. Made somewhere in Europe. Spade anchors are not sold in Australia. I made a mdf version of a 12kg spade to see if it would stow in my anchor locker but I think I will construct a stainless copy of the ultra which has the same blade area but more compact shank.

 

[hlb]

Has any one tried testing anchors against a similar sized brick?

 

[fishermantwo]

12 year old girls version of tropical cyclone Yasi. If only she would mention what anchors they used!.

http://www.mysailing.com.au/news/through-the-eye-of-yasi

 

[Brian@Fortress]

Here's about the Supreme.

Testing in the above material is all independent.

Rocna only has part of the test chart on the web page above, with just the Rocna & Manson being compared. Below is the complete chart(s) with a comparison for ALL of the better performing anchors in that test.

Also, I have complete reports from other anchor tests that were conducted in Australia, France, Germany, Italy, and Sweden with the old & new generation anchors....and some of the results will be surprising. Just send me a private message with your e-mail address and I will fire away.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Rocna only has part of the test chart on the web page above, with just the Rocna & Manson being compared. Below is the complete chart(s) with a comparison for ALL of the better performing anchors in that test.

In fairness they do have the whole of the original report (Sail Magazine 2006)on their website

http://www.rocna.com/assets/Uploads/press0610wmsailtesting.pdf

I would be interested to see the other reports and a PM is on its way....though why not just put it all up on here for everyone to see?

Do you also have copies of the "Practical Sailer" and "Powerboat Reports" articles which Smith intriguingly refers to as "travesties"? It presumably means his product didn't come out too well

 

[Malo37]

Has any one tried testing anchors against a similar sized brick?

Perhaps not as silly a suggestion as it seems. In Naval Architecture hull resistance through the water was for a long time compared by means of a series of coefficients applied to the resistance of a towed standard plank (Froud). It would no doubt be possible to compare anchor performance to some kind of similar standard methodology if there was a will to do it. (I've got a thing about anchors at the moment)

 

[PeterR]

For cruising I've got a 16kg Manson Supreme and a 16Kg Delta on my Dufour 34. The Delta is fine in East Coast mud but I do not trust it in hard sand. In the Med I have dragged too many times, often after a windshift in fairly light winds. The Manson has never dragged but it has never been tested in a real blow. It generally sets very quickly but last year in Scotland it twice failed to set at all. Once was in very thick kelp that would have probably defied anything and once was on what felt like pebbles.

The Manson is easier to handle than the Delta from an open pulpit but does not stow quite as well on my roller which appears to have been purpose made for a Delta. With a closed pulpit the Manson could be quite difficult to store in an anchor well. The Manson is also more difficult to clean all the mud off, at least on the visible upper surface.

 

[hlb]

Perhaps not as silly a suggestion as it seems. In Naval Architecture hull resistance through the water was for a long time compared by means of a series of coefficients applied to the resistance of a towed standard plank (Froud). It would no doubt be possible to compare anchor performance to some kind of similar standard methodology if there was a will to do it. (I've got a thing about anchors at the moment)

It's not a silly question because from many divers in the Med, their experience and photo's are of the anchor upside down, yet the boat holds. In my experience, no matter how I've tried, the chain when being lifted, wanders all over the place. The boats wieght has never reached the anchor. It is simply held there by the chain. Very rarley has there been any difficulty in "breaking" the anchor free. It just comes up.

My thoughts are simple. The anchor or brick is usefull in holding the first few meteres of chain in place, till the rest of the chain goes down. If the strain ever reached the anchor you would move, regardless of anchor type. The secret is chain on the ground, but holds no marketing power.Hence folk flog anchors.

 

[sarabande]

Haydn's right

If steel has a density of 8 tonnes per metre cube, then depleted uranium would be a good material for an anchor chain, as it weighs in at 19 tonnes per metre cubed.

Get a few fathoms so that on the bottom, and nothing will shift you.