Afraid the horse has long since bolted ,

Yep, an engine failure in a boat is pretty disasterous - let's campaign to keep them 100% mechanical, just like light aircraft ... oh ... maybe electronic control is reliable enough?

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The difference between having electronic systems in cars and aircraft and in boats is that cars and aircraft tend not to spend much time in a damp, salty environment. Unless they're really well sealed, including connectors that are completely watertight over hundreds of pluggings and unpluggings, such an environment is death to electronics.

I seem to recall one of the writers for PBO setting up a canbus system on his newbuild boat several years back. IIRC, it was less than perfect in operation.
 
Can we put the genie back in the bottle with engine electronics in the day as they say a diesel engine could function without electricity
but no now
any suggestions
I met a couple of fellow cruisers that were being driven mad by their electronically controlled diesel: the engine did not like Brazilian diesel, it shut the engine down (the same fuel being regularly used without problems in any kind of diesel engines without electronics).
Happily, they had a few jerricans left with European diesel: they started the engine with that and quickly switched to the local diesel for as long as the engine tolerated it before shutting down; repeat and repeat... What a nightmare :(
 
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that Yanmar engines can be ordered as mechanical or electronically controlled as an option. If so, at least one manufacturer has been listening to its customers.
 
I can, and have, started my BUKH engine without an electrical supply, using the starting handle.

Bit it does need an electrical supply to stop it normally, although it can be stopped by blocking the air inlet.
I also start my Stuart Turner using just a handle.

Sorry, I'll correct that....
I also turn over my Stuart Turner using just a handle.
 
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that Yanmar engines can be ordered as mechanical or electronically controlled as an option. If so, at least one manufacturer has been listening to its customers.
This is fine as long as the basic engine is entirely mechanical. But Common Rail engines depend on electronics to run the fuel injection system - instead of a pump delivering "pulses" of high pressure that opens a valve in the injector, the fuel system is always pressurized and an electrical impulse opens a valve in the injector. This gives much better control over the dosing and timing of fuel injection, resulting in better emissions control and better economy, but is entirely dependent on electronics.
 
I met a couple of fellow cruisers that were being driven mad by their electronically controlled diesel: the engine did not like Brazilian diesel, it shut the engine down (the same fuel being regularly used without problems in any kind of diesel engines without electronics).
Happily, they had a few jerricans left with European diesel: they started the engine with that and quickly switched to the local diesel for as long as the engine tolerated it before shutting down; repeat and repeat... What a nightmare :(
Common rail diesels are far less tolerant of poor diesel. It is the price you pay for better power and lower emissions, but of course of less value to boats compared with road vehicles..
 
I also start my Stuart Turner using just a handle.

Sorry, I'll correct that....
I also turn over my Stuart Turner using just a handle.
My then labrador hated me doing that and was as pleased as I was when it actually started. Also hated the Seagull until I reminded her that my salary from them paid for her food.
 
I also start my Stuart Turner using just a handle.

Sorry, I'll correct that....
I also turn over my Stuart Turner using just a handle.

Memories ....

Stuart Turner (Hilyard)..... Dad with spark lug in hand .. Zippo lighter in other - warming it up before putting back in to try and get that '********' to start !
Next boat with Vire 6 .... Snapdragons were notorious for having Vire's ... same story !! Magneto ignition of course.

My Snappie - I converted to Coil ignition (used a coil of a Mini) till crank seals failed ... swapped to outboard then.
 
The difference between having electronic systems in cars and aircraft and in boats is that cars and aircraft tend not to spend much time in a damp, salty environment. Unless they're really well sealed, including connectors that are completely watertight over hundreds of pluggings and unpluggings, such an environment is death to electronics.
Actually, I am not sure that is true - it might even be entirely the opposite.

My boat engine sits inside the boat, completely insulated from any salt water (other than in the cooling system pipes). After over a decade all the paintwork and connections are pristine.
By contrast my car engine gets blasted with water at high pressure through the front grille and from underneath on a regular basis, and in winter a heck of a lot of road salt is added. If open the bonnet there is often dried salt covering many of the components. And there is more superficial corrosion of sundry components after little more than half a decade.
And much of car electronics is in places like ABS wheel sensors, tyre sensors, exhaust sensors which get seriously bad treatment with water, salt and sudden jolts.
 
My boat engine sits inside the boat, completely insulated from any salt water (other than in the cooling system pipes). After over a decade all the paintwork and connections are pristine.
I wish mine did. Due to "deferred maintenance" by the previous owner, both raw water pumps have been leaking so much that the mounting nuts and studs have become a shapeless mass of rust and, with the poor access in a cat, the engines are going to have to come out to get at them for the serious surgery required.

There must also be a goodly number of boats with stern glands that are expected to leak a little. It doesn't take much seawater to leave a bit of salt behind, then everything is permanently damp.
 
Wonder how one would get around trying to use domestic battery as starting backup when batteries these days have to be coded into latest common rail ecu.
Starting would be fine. It's the charging regime that the coding is required for. Anyway, I can't see that becoming a feature on marine engines.
I seem to recall one of the writers for PBO setting up a canbus system on his newbuild boat several years back. IIRC, it was less than perfect in operation.
Anyone with N2K already has a canbus as and far as I'm aware problems are pretty rare. All it needs is good connectors and sensible installation.
 
No idea of the figures but I expect overall they're pretty reliable. Problem as I see it is there are very few DIY fixes possible and I certainly wouldn't have a common rail diesel on any single engine boat. Wonder how one would get around trying to use domestic battery as starting backup when batteries these days have to be coded into latest common rail ecu.
The batteries are coded to enable the smart alternator and recuperation strategy to work efficiently. Modern cars (Euros 5/6)? have a recuperation strategy to reduce CO2 emissions. Basically, when the car accelerates the alternator stops providing power to lessen the load on the engine and save fuel/reduce CO2 (the electrical system runs on the battery). When you brake or take your foot off the accelerator, then the alternator increases the load on the engine and dumps charge into the battery. It tries to manage the battery charge state to around 80-90% so recuperation can function efficiently - hence it needs to know battery capacity and type.

All this would be pretty irrelevant in a marine application as the propeller would be very bad at converting the boats kinetic energy into electricity. (compared to a speeding car going into over-run with its tyres on asphalt).
 
My Volvo 2002 on our last boat had a starting handle and I occasionally used it for starting for practice in case I ever needed it. Its replacement after a gasket failure didn’t have this facility, leaving me with the first boat I had had that I couldn’t start without a battery. Today’s set-ups, with divided battery banks do make the option for hand starting redundant, which is probably fortunate.
I tried but never managed it.
Are you a body builder ?
 
If I remember correctly unless the diesel engine has a pull stop then without electric power the fuel solenoid will clos and the engine stop.
That would be true if the engine was in a car, but (with very odd exceptions) it's the opposite on a boat engine. No electric required to keep the stop solenoid "open", but it's needed to stop the engine.
 
If I remember correctly unless the diesel engine has a pull stop then without electric power the fuel solenoid will clos and the engine stop.
This may be so with a car where you turn the key or press the stop button.
But my VP engines require the key to be tuned to the stop position which energizes the stop solenoid
 
When is the installation of ICE engines in new boats likely to be prohibited ?
Or is there no plan?
 
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