Advice on buying Lithium Batteries

[Sea Change]

Thank heavens, at last, a Lithium user who understands that for some people Lead Acid is still a possible solution. Well done

It's horses for courses. I have four big lead acids on my own boat- starter, windlass, and the old house bank which still runs a few lights and the fresh water pump.
If my lithium system goes down for any reason, I still have enough lights that I can get around and use one of the heads.

Funnily enough, the only time this redundancy has been necessary was when I lost use of the lead acids, not the lithium. Turned out to be a corroded isolator.

I can run the nav equipment from either bank, and will run off the lead acid if I'm motoring.

 

[geem]

Did they mention anything about lithium batteries that aren't permanent installed? Things like ebikes are far, far higher risk than a correctly installed LFP bank.

Just been speaking to the CEO at the Institute of Marine Surveyors. In the last 18 months, 70 superyacht fires around the world are attributed to lithium powered toys. This is likely from them being charged in the sun or just high ambient conditions. Maybe with faulty chargers. The problem at the moment is the insurance industry is uneducated about the difference between lifepo4 and other lithium chemistries. They lump them altogether as lithium, therefore is causes fires!

 

[Sea Change]

Just mean speaking to the CEO at the Institute of Marine Surveyors. In the last 18 months, 70 superyacht fires around the world are attributed to lithium powered toys. This is likely from them being charged in the sun or just high ambient conditions. Maybe with faulty chargers. The problem at the moment is the insurance industry is uneducated about the difference between lifepo4 and other lithium chemistries. They lump them altogether as lithium, therefore is causes fires!

It's not surprising when we live in a misinformation age. How many people are aware that ICE vehicles are twenty times more likely to catch fire than electric ones?

 

[Sandy]

Did they mention anything about lithium batteries that aren't permanent installed? Things like ebikes are far, far higher risk than a correctly installed LFP bank.

No. It was a pretty generic email. If you have lithium onboard you must let us know.

It is up to each skipper to work out their risk profile. Personally, I'd be lifting the phone and having a chat with the nice people at Pantaenius and disclosing what you had onboard. Should anything catch fire then there is no way they can say you did not tell us.

 

[geem]

It's not surprising when we live in a misinformation age. How many people are aware that ICE vehicles are twenty times more likely to catch fire than electric ones?

The other thing he said was that the number of EVs associated with fires on ships transporting cars is a concern for the industry.

 

[fredrussell]

No. It was a pretty generic email. If you have lithium onboard you must let us know…

Including phones?

 

[Sea_Sense]

Out of interest Sea Sense, what does your boat weigh?

Will a 100kg shaved off the total make a difference to the performance?

12 tons, so saving a 100kg is not an argument for me

 

[PaulRainbow]

12 tons, so saving a 100kg is not an argument for me

20 tons here, 100kg is roughly the cocktail cabinet

 

[Sandy]

Including phones?

I never asked them, but being a pragmatic sort of fellow I took that as read.

Given the mass of a phone battery, even my great lump of Blackview (1100 mA), and the fact that you would be charging it a 1 or 2 amps at 12 volts not 70 amps the risk is much reduced.

Should we worry about electric toothbrushes?

 

[Sandy]

20 tons here, 100kg is roughly the cocktail cabinet

Full or empty?

 

[PaulRainbow]

Full or empty?

Full

 

[Sea Change]

I never asked them, but being a pragmatic sort of fellow I took that as read.

Given the mass of a phone battery, even my great lump of Blackview (1100 mA), and the fact that you would be charging it a 1 or 2 amps at 12 volts not 70 amps the risk is much reduced.

Should we worry about electric toothbrushes?

Maybe we should.
Faulty toothbrush wiring blamed for fire

And phones...
Mum's horror as fire caused by faulty phone charger destroys family home

A place I used to work at was gutted by a fire, which started with a rechargeable LED torch.

 

[geem]

Maybe we should.
Faulty toothbrush wiring blamed for fire

And phones...
Mum's horror as fire caused by faulty phone charger destroys family home

A place I used to work at was gutted by a fire, which started with a rechargeable LED torch.

How many people have smoke detectors on their boat? We often charge the phones and tablet over night

 

[Sandy]

Maybe we should.
Faulty toothbrush wiring blamed for fire

And phones...
Mum's horror as fire caused by faulty phone charger destroys family home

A place I used to work at was gutted by a fire, which started with a rechargeable LED torch.

I am well aware of the risks; the local fire service took great delight in scaring the sh1t out of us on every fire wardens course I attended on the dangers of phone charging. One reason I never charge my phone unattended either at home or on the boat.

A water mist fire extinguisher is within easy reach in every cabin onboard.

 

[Sandy]

How many people have smoke detectors on their boat? We often charge the phones and tablet over night

Don't forget CO/CO2 for those who cook with gas or use hydrocarbons to move the boat.

 

[Hjem]

I upgraded Lithium from my old AGMs this winter. I talked to Pantaenius before the install. They said the system had to be installed by a qualified person and asked a load of info about components etc. when I asked what qualification the installer should have, provided an extensive answer to their specification questions and that we were going to install the system ourselves, they replied telling me the install was covered for no additional charge.

We live on our boat and have 600AH from Fogstar. Last year I could only run the fridge for 50% of the day and never at the same time as running the water pump. Along with an inverter, our comfort on board has increased substantially. Very happy with the whole thing, but it wasn't cheap overall. If we only used the boat occasionally, I'd never have spent the money.

Interesting point on the alternator charging. We have a 30A DC to DC charger. It rarely outputs at max and the output quickly drops off once it gets hot. So the engine isn't really a great source of charging now, compared to the 50A we used to get when charging the AGMs. The solar more than makes up for it however.

 

[Sea Change]

Which qualifications did Pantaneus look for?

 

[Hjem]

Which qualifications did Pantaneus look for?

As I say, when I replied to their long list of questions, I also asked what qualifications they were looking for. I simply got a reply stating that we were covered, they never actually answered the questions about qualifications.

 

[geem]

Don't forget CO/CO2 for those who cook with gas or use hydrocarbons to move the boat.

I have that, I just don't have a dedicated smoke detector

 

[Hjem]

How many people have smoke detectors on their boat? We often charge the phones and tablet over night

We have a smoke detector, CO detector and a gas alarm.