2nd Hand Yacht Purchase Procedure

[Irish Rover]

Everything seems to be moving on satisfactorily with my purchase of a, new to me, boat. The survey and sea trial was completed on Wednesday and, I'm waiting for a full report, but it appears there are no deal breaker issues. I will pay the balance to the broker next week but the agreed handover is not until late April. I'm registering on UK Part 1 and they've told me what they need. Boat is being bought VAT unpaid.
So, I have a couple of questions.
- There will be 4 names on the registration certificate [me, wife + 2 sons]. Is it necessary for all 4 names to be on Bill of Sale and for all 4 to sign?
- I've already got a copy of the Builder's Certificate and the only other previous Bill of Sale from the selling broker - should I expect to get the originals?
- When the final Bill of Sale is signed by the seller and me should I get the original?
- any other words of wisdom also welcome.

 

[wonkywinch]

Part 1 registration is divided into 64ths for some historical reason. With 4 owners, it would be tempting to simply divide the shares equally but it's also possible for two or more owners to own all of the shares.

This is what I did with our boat so there would be no issues in the event of my demise as the missus is already registered as an owner of 64/64ths.

Ours came with all original bills of sale back to new.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Perhaps the biggest sin at the moment would be to buy a boat before selling your existing one. I changed boats three years ago and I still have the other one

p.s I will dance for food

 

[Irish Rover]

Part 1 registration is divided into 64ths for some historical reason. With 4 owners, it would be tempting to simply divide the shares equally but it's also possible for two or more owners to own all of the shares.

This is what I did with our boat so there would be no issues in the event of my demise as the missus is already registered as an owner of 64/64ths.

Ours came with all original bills of sale back to new.

Thanks. Buying VAT unpaid can be complex. I'm trying to stay ahead of the tax man in a couple of different jurisdictions so I need to have 2 of my sons as co-owners.
Two previous owners are actually companies so I'm not sure they'll want to part with original documents and I'm trying to determine if I'm entitled to insist or if I really need them - everything is online with UKSR so scans are fine for them.

 

[ylop]

Two previous owners are actually companies so I'm not sure they'll want to part with original documents and I'm trying to determine if I'm entitled to insist or if I really need them - everything is online with UKSR so scans are fine for them.

I can't see any reason why a company would expect to hold the original when they are selling the asset. Originals will be marginally better for you if the next owner is particularly old school and expecting originals. If you don't get the originals I'd ask for a written commitment from the seller that they will keep the originals safe and make them available for inspection with [7 days] notice for any potential future buyer or official who may have cause to see them.

 

[maxi77]

I can't see any reason why a company would expect to hold the original when they are selling the asset. Originals will be marginally better for you if the next owner is particularly old school and expecting originals. If you don't get the originals I'd ask for a written commitment from the seller that they will keep the originals safe and make them available for inspection with [7 days] notice for any potential future buyer or official who may have cause to see them.

Why not have 2 originals, both signed by both parties.

 

[Irish Rover]

Why not have 2 originals, both signed by both parties.

We're talking about historical documents.

 

[doug748]

Everything seems to be moving on satisfactorily with my purchase of a, new to me, boat. The survey and sea trial was completed on Wednesday and, I'm waiting for a full report, but it appears there are no deal breaker issues. I will pay the balance to the broker next week but the agreed handover is not until late April. I'm registering on UK Part 1 and they've told me what they need. Boat is being bought VAT unpaid.
So, I have a couple of questions.
- There will be 4 names on the registration certificate [me, wife + 2 sons]. Is it necessary for all 4 names to be on Bill of Sale and for all 4 to sign?
- I've already got a copy of the Builder's Certificate and the only other previous Bill of Sale from the selling broker - should I expect to get the originals?
- When the final Bill of Sale is signed by the seller and me should I get the original?
- any other words of wisdom also welcome.

I have only dealt with Guernsey which is generally similar to UK but can vary, however:

I can't see why you should not be given the original previous bills of sale, don't think it is a biggie but personally I would want the originals if still around. Bringing this up clearly in advance is the way to go.

For the CI registries all would have to sign the Bill of Sale here is an example:

https://cdn.ports.je/web/JR04-Bill-of-Sale-print-verson-2023.pdf

You should get the original Bill of Sale it is a unique document and cannot be replaced, I don't think the Registry even keep a copy (bear in mind this is what I was told in Guernsey by the Registrar and this was 10 years ago - I have no reason to suspect anything has changed). Note however, that it is the entry in the register that is the key thing, though the Bill is a nice thing to have.
For cruising I would keep the original at home and a good copy, suitably aged with the registration doc on the boat, the better to please sniffy officials.

.

 

[dunedin]

We're talking about historical documents.

I am no expert, but isn’t the primary reason people ask for originals is proving VAT status - which won’t be an issue for you?
Clearly the Part 1 registration will be an original document.

Lots of companies don’t keep paper copies of anything these days, everything scanned and kept on computer.

 

[Refueler]

Simple answer if it was me :

Please can I have all original documents for the item.

 

[Irish Rover]

OK thanks. I hear what people are saying and it accords with my own prior opinion. I had asked already for these and I've no reason to believe they won't be forthcoming.
I'm still anxious to get an answer to my first question if anyone has had experience of a similar situation - "There will be 4 names on the registration certificate [me, wife + 2 sons]. Is it necessary for all 4 names to be on Bill of Sale and for all 4 to sign?"

 

[Sticky Fingers]

We had two names on ours and it was necessary that both signed. We were joint owners of all 64/64ths. A sale would also require both parties to sign. Joint ownership.

An alternative would be where each person owns a specific number of 64th shares. There would then be an individual bill of sale for those 64ths that apply, with only that person’s name on it as the new owner of those shares. So in that case there would be 4 bills of sale. In this case, each party would be at liberty to sell their own shares. Owners in common.

Don’t know which of these scenarios applies.

 

[wonkywinch]

OK thanks. I hear what people are saying and it accords with my own prior opinion. I had asked already for these and I've no reason to believe they won't be forthcoming.
I'm still anxious to get an answer to my first question if anyone has had experience of a similar situation - "There will be 4 names on the registration certificate [me, wife + 2 sons]. Is it necessary for all 4 names to be on Bill of Sale and for all 4 to sign?"

Who pays for an item and who are the registered owners are two separate things. I expect you may need legal advice rather than relying on the internet as the advice you get here is probably worth just as much as you paid for it.

 

[nevis768]

Everything seems to be moving on satisfactorily with my purchase of a, new to me, boat. The survey and sea trial was completed on Wednesday and, I'm waiting for a full report, but it appears there are no deal breaker issues. I will pay the balance to the broker next week but the agreed handover is not until late April. I'm registering on UK Part 1 and they've told me what they need. Boat is being bought VAT unpaid.
So, I have a couple of questions.
- There will be 4 names on the registration certificate [me, wife + 2 sons]. Is it necessary for all 4 names to be on Bill of Sale and for all 4 to sign?
- I've already got a copy of the Builder's Certificate and the only other previous Bill of Sale from the selling broker - should I expect to get the originals?
- When the final Bill of Sale is signed by the seller and me should I get the original?
- any other words of wisdom also welcome.

I wouldn't pay the balance until I was getting the yacht, that's what I did last year when I bought mine, paid and exchanged the same day through the broker. What are you going to do if there are issues, or it sinks or the engine blows up, mast falls down etc? People are often not good at returning money...I would cut out that risk.

 

[Irish Rover]

I wouldn't pay the balance until I was getting the yacht, that's what I did last year when I bought mine, paid and exchanged the same day through the broker. What are you going to do if there are issues, or it sinks or the engine blows up, mast falls down etc? People are often not good at returning money...I would cut out that risk.

Thanks. Separate matter. I'd like to keep the thread on subject for now.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Have you looked online. When I bought my part 1 reg boat the instructions and requirements were all very clearly laid out in the supporting documentation on the government website. If not just give the reg a call. It's probably a FAQ for them and they will give you the official line.
One mistake I made was to send my new bill of sale without making a copy (no online reg at the time) but a quick email and they sent me a notarised copy for my records.

 

[Irish Rover]

So, cards on the table, I had spoken to UKSR twice today before I posted and I was confused by what I was told which is why I posted. They know already from my provisional registration there will be 4 owners divided 30/30/2/2. I asked if all 4 names needed to be on the BOS and the answer was "Yes and all 4 must sign the BOS". Seemed strange to me that BOS would require all 4 signatures. I went back and had a look at what UKSR had sent me in an earlier email and it included a link to an MCA form of BOS numbered MSF4705 (see link below). As far as I can see this form doesn't require the buyer's signature at all.
Am I missing something here???
Bill of sale (MSF 4705)

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Ah yes. Names. We were selling not buying so maybe that’s why I got that confused.

Not signatures for the transferees.

 

[Laser310]

Everything seems to be moving on satisfactorily with my purchase of a, new to me, boat. The survey and sea trial was completed on Wednesday and, I'm waiting for a full report, but it appears there are no deal breaker issues. I will pay the balance to the broker next week but the agreed handover is not until late April.

I don't understand this...

you presumably had an agreed price, subject to survey, and put down a deposit - before the survey.

now you have had the survey, and believe that there will be no obstacles to going forward.

why are you paying "the balance" to the broker, so long before the "agreed handover"

i am assuming that by "agreed handover" you mean the transfer of title.

why would you not get title to the boat at the same time as you pay the balance?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

So, cards on the table, I had spoken to UKSR twice today before I posted and I was confused by what I was told which is why I posted. They know already from my provisional registration there will be 4 owners divided 30/30/2/2. I asked if all 4 names needed to be on the BOS and the answer was "Yes and all 4 must sign the BOS". Seemed strange to me that BOS would require all 4 signatures. I went back and had a look at what UKSR had sent me in an earlier email and it included a link to an MCA form of BOS numbered MSF4705 (see link below). As far as I can see this form doesn't require the buyer's signature at all.
Am I missing something here???
Bill of sale (MSF 4705)

Looks like you are right that only the sellers have to sign ! Just fill it in without signatures I guess