2013 Bavaria 35 Sport HT

[Tranona]

When you buy a product, the seller ( or manufacturer) must guarantee her against hidden defects .

The implied warranty applies regardless of the property purchased irrespective of the vendor (professional or private individual ).

You have the choice between two solutions or keep the product and ask for a price reduction , or return the product and request a refund of the price paid and the costs arising from the sale.

If the seller knew the defect of the product you bought (or in the case of a professional ), it must , in addition to refund the price you pay damages.

Not sure what law you are attempting to quote there, but that is not the law in the UK. If the seller is private there is no warranty unless it is specific to the contract. In the case of your boat the supplier has to be given the opportunity to make good the defect. Further, it is unclear in your case (from what you have told us) whether the defect was there from the beginning or whether the damage was caused by some event after the boat left the factory.

Perhaps you can enlighten us further on these points?

 

[Whitelighter]

Are you speaking about Spanish consumer law or French?

Because you are not a consumer of Bavaria, but of their dealer.
EU legislation actually does not give the right to demand a refund.

Which is why I ask which consumer legislation you refer to

 

[BruceK]

Getting a refund on a boat because of an electrical leak is stretching it thin, warranty repair yes certainly. Is it known what caused the structural damage?

 

[P4Paul]

I quote the surveyor : "We put the boat on dry dock, under slings in order to ensure that no impact occurred on the hull. Our common observation left no doubt, the boat is in perfect external condition. We undertook a slight tapping using a light hammer on all the underwater hull, no delamination or hollows were noticed from the exterior of the boat.
I was however able to see that extensive corrosion marks are present on all the stainless steel bolting situated either underwater or on the flotation line. These signs of corrosion appearing after a few months of ownership, we can question their state after a few years of use. It is probable that electrical leaks exist, this research has not been carried out

Out of interest, the survey you have shared refers to a survey commissioned by the supplying dealer. Does the dealers survey have the same conclusion on the cause and extent of the issue?

Can you also help me understand one other point; in your post #113 it would appear that your contract to purchase this boat was with the spanish distributor. If this is the case, wouldn't the contract be under spanish law?

 

[Whitelighter]

Depends what is written on the contract.

The contract for Seralia stipulated UK law

 

[diligaf]

I sense some straw clutching going on here. DOAN. Your boat will be built in exactly the same way as the rest of them, they are production boats. How come everyone of them hasn't fallen apart like yours has?

 

[KevB]

Whitelighter, after all you've recently been through with unsubstantiated services and such, would you have bought your current boat if you knew the history of a major repair carried out by the manufacturer? If you're honest... I doubt it

 

[Whitelighter]

Whitelighter, after all you've recently been through with unsubstantiated services and such, would you have bought your current boat if you knew the history of a major repair carried out by the manufacturer? If you're honest... I doubt it

It's honestly hard to answer that because there are so many variables.

If it was repaired badly enough to flag up on a survey then probably not.
If it was repaired to factory standard and therefore not identifiable I wonder how I'd know. If the vendor declared it is certainly get a very thorough survey go using more intently on the declared areas but if that were clean and everything else were right then basically yes I would have still bought it. Though in reality, unless you plaster all your problems all over the Internet it's likely no-one would know - assuming the repair is good

The issues I had with the azimut were that the faults weren't fixed - they were present and the fix was unviable.

 

[KevB]

I'm tentatively looking at portofino 46's, just dreaming really but you never know. I would walk away from any that have had structural repair, regardless of how well it's been done or how good the rest of the boat was. There are others out there. Unless it was massively cheaper of course and that's what the OP would be facing if I were interested in his repaired boat, and I wouldn't be the only one with that attitude. Buyers are hard to come by as it is.

 

[KevB]

Thinking about it, I know of a couple who bought a new sealine s38 a few years ago, it was one of the first. After a few months use, similar to the OP's boat, structural cracks appeared. Sealine didn't mess around, the lent them a different boat until a new one was ready.

 

[BruceK]

I think it has more to do with the age of the boat. I wouldn't be adverse to a good repair on an old boat. Indeed mine has previously been stolen and beached on rocks and holed. The broker at Norfolk was completely unaware of this history but the boat is well known in N Wales. I hired a surveyor and drilled him on the detail but he was unable to locate the repair even. But on a new boat at top dollar? No chance, it's been sullied

 

[P4Paul]

A common observation of the surveyor was debated.

It was noticed that, and in line with the longitudinal tear situated in the portside storage chest under the mess, after having removed the fridge, we were able to note the lack of symmetry in terms of reinforcements.

Indeed on starboard, a structural reinforcement as well as a partition are present in the middle of this panel while portside the distance between 2 reinforcements is above 1.6meters.

This lack of structure could partly explain the tearing of the central girder and of the partitions as well as a twisting movement that occurs while the boat is at sea. It has been known that structural asymmetry can impact the movements of a boat.

The contract is under the law of Luxembourg as the dealer 's seat is registered in this country

Thanks for explaining about Luxembourg.

Can I just check my understanding of the survey extract and confirm the 'lack of symmetry' relates to the legs of the grid/inner liner under the saloon seating on the port side and the corresponding legs under the galley on the starboard side?

If you look in the underfloor space in the area of the shower pump, is the survey saying that the main beam has a tear in it?

 

[petem]

Doan, despite he above something caused those cracks? Was it rough transport or lifting or bad seas? When were the cracks first spotted? What have Bavaria said is the cause?

You need to answer these question to regain any credibility.

 

[vas]

DOAN,

I think it would be nice to answer CLEARLY some clear questions asked otherwise I can only conclude that you are hiding something.

How about replying CLEARLY in your words and not via surveyors report extracts, pete's question in post 131 just above yours for a start???

good luck

V

 

[KevB]

DOAN,
You're losing support by not answering the obvious question. Did anything unusual happen to the boat to cause the start of the problems?

 

[Portofino]

Feels to me so far that inner grid detachment leading to the twisting + all the cracks etc

1- manufactoring fault -most likely

2- 10 hrs some of which used in seas that exceed the design specification ?

Even so not a great advertisement for Bav

Just to eliminate the cat B thing - waves of 4 M ? - DOAN - what was the sea like in the first 10hrs ?
Bav,s legal team may enquire - dates ,time , weather , sea state etc? To blame you for abuse .

 

[Portofino]

DOAN ,iam with you on this -take them to court get your money back

but just explain to the others you did NOT do anything like this In the 1 st 10 hours

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M38GhA-2Quo

 

[Portofino]

I'm like you I want to know.
the dealer took the boat as much time as me.

Hmmm

"as much time "

That's new info DOAN -opens up more questions ??

So 10 hrs by who ? How many hrs on it when you got it ?

Was it used a demo for a few weeks or a show? -

If dealer smashed it up a wave -post # 138 - ? Then you will lose at court !

 

[Tranona]

When you buy a product, the seller ( or manufacturer) must guarantee her against hidden defects .

The implied warranty applies regardless of the property purchased irrespective of the vendor (professional or private individual ).

You have the choice between two solutions or keep the product and ask for a price reduction , or return the product and request a refund of the price paid and the costs arising from the sale.

If the seller knew the defect of the product you bought (or in the case of a professional ), it must , in addition to refund the price you pay damages.

I don't know how the law is actually worded in Luxembourg, but in the UK equivalent you do not have the "choice" of those remedies. Those are the POSSIBLE remedies under section 48 of the Consumer Goods Act (or its predecessor SOG which covers transactions prior to October 2015).

However in our legislation the words "appropriate" "reasonable" and "in relation to the goods" also appear. So given that Bavaria have agreed the boat was faulty they first have the opportunity to make good - which is their offer. They could also be asked to make a price adjustment. The possibility is there to rescind the goods, but only if the earlier remedies are not satisfactory.

So, your challenge is to show that the offer of repair (with any additional warranty or conditions) is not reasonable or appropriate given the nature of the goods. I would assume your legal advisers are telling you much the same as consumer law is basically the same across the EU, so it will depend on the strength of your case against Bavaria's defence. You have already achieved your basic rights, so guess it is up to the court to decide on any further remedy - or Bavaria to improve their offer given your proposal to take action.

Not sure anybody here can go any further without having all the evidence available, although some will no doubt have opinions based on the information you have given.

So, good luck and look forward to hearing the outcome.

 

[vas]

If dealer smashed it up a wave -post # 138 - ? Then you will lose at court !

my thoughts exactly

however, a smash like (or smaller than) that would show immediatelly wouldn't it?

V.