Lawski
New member
I am considering buying a pioneer 9 for cruising/racing out of Hartlepool. Does anyone have any advice/ information which I may find useful. e.g.How manoeverable are they in tight spots?
Pioneer 9
- Thread starter Lawski
- Start date
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
sailorman
Well-known member
Spade Rudder Too
Krusty
New member
I have a friend who owned one, and we sailed on company (St Kilda) on one occasion.
A fairly early Van de Stadt design, so eminently seaworthy (2-way trans-Atlantic): tough and durable build quality: no manoeuvrability problems, a good performance in its time, but no match for modern lightweight skimmers. Tight accommodation.
jamesjermain
Active member
A Van der Stadt design from early sixties she had a long keel but separate spade rudder. Designed as a cruiser racer she was quick enough in her day but rather pedestrian now. She was/is a reasonable sea boaty for her length but she does throw a lot of water back into the cockpit. The keyhole companionway, a VdS trade mark at the time, is a good safety feature but a pain for getting up and down the companionway steps. Narrow beam makes her quite tender initially and you'll find yourself sailing to windward at greater angles of heel that you might be used to in a modern boat - often with the lee deck awash. The beam also means the interior is narrow and cramped. Build quality by Tylers/SOuthern Ocean Shipyards was solid but the interior may be in need of considerable refurbishment simply through age.
Tin Tin
New member
sailorman
Well-known member
Does it go to windward?
Yes designed by VdS init.
There are a couple on the East Coast that race & win offshore & X channel
Tin Tin
New member
sailorman
Well-known member
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Many years ago we were the furthest out boat in a massive raft at Dunmore East, waiting for the SW 6-7 to abate. A most disreputable-looking Pioneer 9 came alongside us, when we could see that not only was the exterior distinctly past its sell-by date but the interior was even worse. The engine was in bits on the sole and everything was filthy.
After a while we began chatting to the skipper, who asked us where we had come from, to which the answer was Anglesey. I asked him the same question, to which the answer was Bermuda. Dunmore East was his first port of call.
So maybe not the ideal boat for racing, but no doubting its cruising capability.
yoda
Well-known member
As an owner, and having sailed one for 32 years now I think I am reasonably well qualified to comment. You will have read James' comments which while reasonable make comparison with boats significantly newer and more expensive. You are looking at boat that costs probably 1/3 of a Contessa 32 yet still keeps up with them. Yes a bit wet, but not that bad. Excellent seakeeper and you won't find yourself hurled around as you will in many newer designs. The performance is excellent in 10kts plus for a boat of about 24ft waterline length. You won't keep up with the lightweight fliers in light wind but that still leaves plenty of weather when you can make the handicap pay. Before knocking the interior volume check out other boats of a similar price, little compares. The heads may be a bit basic (although Cabellero is a very unusual but well apointed interior) but there is more to life than sitting on the toilet. The boat spins on a sixpence and with a decent Diesel will prove easily handled under power. Good sails well set will give others around you a shock as you go past. PM me if you want more.
Lawski
New member
Hi, Thanks for the information. I sail on a friends Contessa 26 and I am used to the odd bucketfull of water in the face and sailing with the sea coming over the side decks. I think I shall feel quite at home on a Pioneer 9.
yoda
Well-known member
Pioneer v Contessa 26
Lawski
You will indeed find the sailing very similar but the fin and spade makes for great manoeuverability and you do get more room inside. Also great value for money. Spend anything you have left on the best sails you can afford (Sanders if poss) and a decent pair of 2 speed ST winches if required. Feel free to PM me if you want any advice. When inspecting your prospective purchase take a good look at the mast step arrangement, most have been reinforced to overcome a minor build defect. The job is simple to do (3 hours) and only cost is a piece of angle iron and a few bolts.
yoda
Lawski
You will indeed find the sailing very similar but the fin and spade makes for great manoeuverability and you do get more room inside. Also great value for money. Spend anything you have left on the best sails you can afford (Sanders if poss) and a decent pair of 2 speed ST winches if required. Feel free to PM me if you want any advice. When inspecting your prospective purchase take a good look at the mast step arrangement, most have been reinforced to overcome a minor build defect. The job is simple to do (3 hours) and only cost is a piece of angle iron and a few bolts.
yoda
dt4134
New member
Does it go to windward?
I remember having to calculate the sail area necessary to balance the solar wind against the sun's gravity when I was at Uni, so for that sort of craft windward performance is best improved by reefing early.
Mrs FG
New member
There's a book called "When I Put Out to Sea" by Nicolette Milnes Walker, who was the first woman to sail single-handed across the Atlantic in 1971 - in a Pionier 9 (as she spells it), Aziz.
Marked in my copy of the book, by my father, who owned one in the 70s, is the comment: "The bilge pump was in a stupid place, inside the heads compartment. I had to lift the floorboards, open the exit cock of the toilet and put the exit pipe from the pump into the toilet bowl..." I don't know if they have improved the system, but I vaguely remember something of the kind when I was a little girl.
Two blokes sailed my Dad's Pioneer, Tio Pepe, to Fiji, where the mainsail blew out and she foundered on a reef, about 150 miles from her destination - so what vyv_cox said, but make sure the sails aren't worn out.
Marked in my copy of the book, by my father, who owned one in the 70s, is the comment: "The bilge pump was in a stupid place, inside the heads compartment. I had to lift the floorboards, open the exit cock of the toilet and put the exit pipe from the pump into the toilet bowl..." I don't know if they have improved the system, but I vaguely remember something of the kind when I was a little girl.
Two blokes sailed my Dad's Pioneer, Tio Pepe, to Fiji, where the mainsail blew out and she foundered on a reef, about 150 miles from her destination - so what vyv_cox said, but make sure the sails aren't worn out.
rogeriorg
Member
Permit me my very personal view. I owned a Pionier 9 for the last 2 years. I keep her at Port Hamble where at spring tides it becomes a very dificult place to manouver. So far no embarassements. She's very predictable forward and in reverse. Low freeboard helps with low windage. A small and cheap boat, build like a brickhouse that sails like a dream. The best kept secrect. Most people won't give a second glance. But get on the helm, trim your sails well, tune your rigging and you'll see why Pioniers caused a stir in their time. Perfect size for singlehandling. When i sailed her from Cornwall one of the sheet winches seized up, no problem, the load was easily handled manualy. Im a bit baised cause I love my boat and I sail by myself all the time. So accomodation is not an issue. I definetely recomend.
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Caitlin31
New member
Does anyone have any tutorials or more details on this?
yoda
Well-known member
If you need more details on what I had to do to my Pioneer please message me. The defect can be spotted by the deck becoming slightly concave or probably more noticeable by the wooden beam underneath it in the cabin starting to sag slightly.
Yoda
179580
Active member
Up to a few years ago, Aziz was alive and well on the Tamar river. Owned by an itinerant live aboard who fell out with the locals. Haven't seen or heard of either since.
pmnfernando
Member
Hello
I am refitting a 1962 Pioneer 9 in Macau .
Currently on the hard after replacing keel bolts, peeling the gelcoat back to bare glass and painting the topsides.
Always happy to know more about his boat and share what i have done so far.
let me know, maybe i can be of use.
cheers
I am refitting a 1962 Pioneer 9 in Macau .
Currently on the hard after replacing keel bolts, peeling the gelcoat back to bare glass and painting the topsides.
Always happy to know more about his boat and share what i have done so far.
let me know, maybe i can be of use.
cheers
