Advice needed on precautions when using boat throughout Winter

[Paulfireblade]

I hope you don't mind me posting here but I thought it might be useful to get advice from the specific area I keep my boat and in particular Shotley if anyone from there reads this.

I enjoy Sailing as much in the Winter as any time, the weather is less favourable but it is much quieter and having bought my first boat this year I want to ensure I don't suffer any damage due to freezing conditions. The boat was lifted out in the Summer and annual maintenance carried out and I will be getting the engine serviced with fresh oil shortly.

Advice when laying up a boat over Winter on the hard seems quite straight forward but leaving it in the water so it can be used throughout the Winter seems quite conflicting with some saying to drain out water tanks fresh & hot and don't even use a kettle due to condensation caused while others say the water the boat sits in acts as a heat sink so temps don't vary much so just leave water tank full (Shotley is a locked Marina for anyone that doesn't know so does lack of water movement over Winter make a difference to that theory or is it not even a valid theory anyway?)

I will be staying on the boat for a few days and sailing at least once a month throughout the Winter but I live a hundred miles away so will not be popping down in between unless there was really bad weather in which case I would make a special trip.

I plan to keep diesel tank fairly full to avoid condensation, leave cushions in a pyramid with cupboard doors/lockers open and some bilge boards lifted to allow air circulation, When staying on it I am lucky enough to have a diesel cabin heating throughout.

I am considering a tubular frost heater for engine bay and perhaps a disk type dehumidifier but then I have known of them to cause fires aboard so I am a little reluctant to use a dehumidifier.

I depressurise the water system before leaving the boat all year round so do I need to drain both fresh and hot tanks as well over winter? What about the holding tank, can that be left with some contents?

Any thoughts please on the many things I may not be aware of as there is a big difference from enjoying Winter sailing and being responsible for a boat in between so any advice appreciated.

Thank you, in advance.

Paul

 

[PaulRainbow]

As far as your water tanks are concerned, turn the pump off and leave the taps open, just in case it gets exceptionally cold and the water freezes in the taps, although it's pretty unlikely, only had that happen once, about 12 years ago.

We had a particularly cold spell in Shotley last Winter, the pontoons were thick with snow and ice, the car park was so bad i couldn't move my car and the hoses on the pontoons froze. I don't know of anyone that had frost damage onboard, i certainly didn't.

 

[johnalison]

With the way winters are going, the risk of freezing is pretty low. Back in the ‘70s I can remember it going down to -18 in November but in recent years it hardly seems to freeze much. If you are within easy reach of the boat, you could do as I do, which is to leave the fresh water in and be prepared to visit the boat if a deep freeze is forecast. Even with a freeze, the seawater will usually be warmer, around +4 and protect the cabin to some extent, and snow will do the same.

I use a dehumidifier and hope that the risk of fire is low enough to be discounted. Just remember that it can take a very long time to empty the water tank, so just keep sufficient for immediate use. When draining the tank, it is also necessary to drain the pump.

 

[Rappey]

I've had 28 winters afloat and never had any problems due to freezing.

 

[Paulfireblade]

Excellent news, thank you for the advice.

Many thanks

Paul

 

[AntarcticPilot]

A boat afloat is less susceptible to frost damage than one ashore. The temperature of the water can't fall below freezing point; it would be solid otherwise, and that doesn't happen in the UK. So, the temperature in a boat that's afloat can't drop below zero. But a boat that's ashore can easily be cooled to the air temperature, which often drops below zero in the UK. The only time I've had problems arising from freezing have been when the boat was ashore.

If you're in commission and using her, I wouldn't get excited about the possibility of damage from freezing, unless there are really exceptional conditions (say, -20°C)

 

[Poignard]

Beware of ice on the decks and on pontoons.

I had to move my boat for a late lift out one year in Gosport and the decks were covered in ice. Deck shoes were useless and I resorted to leaving them off and wearing a couple of pairs of socks. Even then it was treacherous.

If you slide off a pontoon into the water the chances are there will be nobody around to help you out.

 

[dunedin]

Paul. Your plan looks pretty good. We have kept our boat in commission through 15 winters in Scotland - including two years with sustained temperatures down to -8C.

Depressurising the domestic water taps, as you suggest is an important one - we forgot once in a cold spell, and the stern shower tap burst due to ice (I had forgotten we even had one till switched pump on and had to find the leak). We also keep the domestic water tanks moderately near empty.
We have 3 tube heaters set on a temperature switch, so they come on when temperature below 5C or so.

It does help slightly if the marina is salt water rather, rather than filled by fresh water from a stream - but not much can do about that.

I am not convinced by the keep diesel tank full theory - particularly after we got diesel bug in new fuel last winter, much bigger hassle to sort with 200L than with 50L. And I don’t think the water content in the air inside the tank is material, compared to leaking O rings and other potential sources of water (though we had diesel bug, there was no discernible water in tank, and zero in filter bowl)

Key thing, you will get gales - we have had a number of F10+ over the years. Always furl jib VERY tightly, leave three wraps of sheets round sail - plus extra rope tie on the furling drum to prevent turning if the furling line broke.

Happy winter sailing

 

[dunedin]

A boat afloat is less susceptible to frost damage than one ashore. The temperature of the water can't fall below freezing point; it would be solid otherwise, and that doesn't happen in the UK.

Can I just question that. I have been in Tarbert Loch Fyne on a weekend sail and found the water frozen to about 50m round the boat (we stayed overnight in a B&B due to the -8C forecast). Also Kip Marina occasionally has slight icing.
Not stuff you would need an ice breaker for, but definitely sub zero. Both low saline water due to rivers flowing in.

PS I once won a dinghy race in light winds by going further out downwind, where the surface ice was thinner. We had to put the mainsheet inside the wetsuit to defrost it before launching.

 

[Kukri]

A few general observations on sailing in the winter:

1. You will want some on board source of warmth.

2. Yes, you can get the mooring right next to the pub, but the buoys for the Deben and Alde bars are withdrawn (not Walton, as the Lifeboat uses them when on its “inside” mooring), and, whatever you do, don’t capsize the tender.

3. There are no sea breezes. This means you get lots of “not enough” wind and lots of “too much” wind, and not a lot of “just right” wind.

 

[Tomahawk]

A problem comes from condensation... especialy after you may have been on board. It is quite incredible how much water we breath out. A dehumidifier is therefore a must. You do not want mildew ... Set it up over the sink to drain. Ticking away at low level, they actually keep the air just a bit warm although it feels very cold when you go in the cabin because the air will be dry and you get a pronounced evaporation chill effect.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Can I just question that. I have been in Tarbert Loch Fyne on a weekend sail and found the water frozen to about 50m round the boat (we stayed overnight in a B&B due to the -8C forecast). Also Kip Marina occasionally has slight icing.
Not stuff you would need an ice breaker for, but definitely sub zero. Both low saline water due to rivers flowing in.

PS I once won a dinghy race in light winds by going further out downwind, where the surface ice was thinner. We had to put the mainsheet inside the wetsuit to defrost it before launching.

I too have been at Kip with ice on the surface; I spent a week aboard unable to go anywhere because of it. And the point is that despite the skin of ice, the boat (with the aid of an Eberspacher) was not impossibly cold, and the freshwater system didn't freeze. But that's because the bulk of the water that the boat is in remains liquid; for the boat to go below zero would mean it would have to be frozen in completely, which only happens in the Polar Regions. If you've seen ice a couple of feet thick, it wasn't in the UK!

 

[Leighb]

Ipswich Wet Dock gets surface ice on it in cold spells, so it can happen down our way also. There is a fresh water feed into the top of the dock I believe which means it is brackish, mind you the Orwell froze across in 62/63, as did the Blackwater, and there was a lot of ice in the Wallet with sailing barges trapped in it.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Ipswich Wet Dock gets surface ice on it in cold spells, so it can happen down our way also. There is a fresh water feed into the top of the dock I believe which means it is brackish, mind you the Orwell froze across in 62/63, as did the Blackwater, and there was a lot of ice in the Wallet with sailing barges trapped in it.

Surface ice is unimportant. It's the bulk of the water that your boat is floating in that matters. And as long as you're floating, the boat cannot be below zero(ish). If you're not floating, you have other problems, but outside the Arctic and Antarctic, it's pretty unlikely.

 

[johnalison]

A boat afloat is less susceptible to frost damage than one ashore. The temperature of the water can't fall below freezing point; it would be solid otherwise, and that doesn't happen in the UK. So, the temperature in a boat that's afloat can't drop below zero. But a boat that's ashore can easily be cooled to the air temperature, which often drops below zero in the UK. The only time I've had problems arising from freezing have been when the boat was ashore.

If you're in commission and using her, I wouldn't get excited about the possibility of damage from freezing, unless there are really exceptional conditions (say, -20°C)

That just needs a little qualification. The freezing point of seawater is a little lower because of the salinity, typically around minus 2, so in theory the water around a boat could cause it to freeze. In still water, the lower strata tend to be at plus 4 because this is when water is densest, but tidal flow makes a bit of a nonsense of this of course. You could prevent the water in the system from freezing by adding alcohol, I suppose.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

That just needs a little qualification. The freezing point of seawater is a little lower because of the salinity, typically around minus 2, so in theory the water around a boat could cause it to freeze. In still water, the lower strata tend to be at plus 4 because this is when water is densest, but tidal flow makes a bit of a nonsense of this of course. You could prevent the water in the system from freezing by adding alcohol, I suppose.

I did consider mentioning the lower freezing point of salt water! In practice, it doesn't seem to matter.

 

[dave2114]

Having just read all the comments regarding what to do about winter sailing and boat care thank you for some sensible advice, I intend to sail well into 2022 before a lift and clean. I have already been using a tube heater with rheostat control, even in the recent foul weather 'down south' it has made a positive difference to our boat interior, currently more than enough to stave off condensation problems, just a new boy with an observation

 

[snowbird30ds]

Adding alcohol works well, don't do it to the boat, add it direct and you won't care about the cold.

 

[Kukri]

I kept my wooden boat on a mooring, sailing all year, and had no trouble at all with damp of condensation. I think this was because she was set up to have a howling draft from the lazarette hatch (left off, under the cockpit cover) straight through to the fore hatch (left open by three clear inches with side “wings” and a cover. A boat of normal shape on a mooring will ventilate from aft to forward because of the sheer which causes a low pressure area over the foredeck.

 

[Capt Popeye]

A few general observations on sailing in the winter:

1. You will want some on board source of warmth.

2. Yes, you can get the mooring right next to the pub, but the buoys for the Deben and Alde bars are withdrawn (not Walton, as the Lifeboat uses them when on its “inside” mooring), and, whatever you do, don’t capsize the tender.

3. There are no sea breezes. This means you get lots of “not enough” wind and lots of “too much” wind, and not a lot of “just right” wind.

Aoy ; might ask , are you related to the late Eric Morcome by any chance ? your description of Sea Breezes resembles Erics line about his Piano Playing , 'its all the right Notes but not necessarily in the right order '

{;-)#