Yacht breaks up off Anvil Point

Re: What a plonker!

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...... can understand peoples anger that these people MAY be inexperienced and possibly incompetent....

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I have trouble understanding that and wonder why there isn't a bit more sympathy for the loss of a boat - why should anyone be "angry"? There are lots of inexperienced, possibly incompetent, people out there but they generally learn in time without a major disaster.



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I said that as I got the impression from a number of posts that if inexperienced /incompetent people got to sea in new boats and they have an accident there are often unfortunate consequences.

1. Others risk their lives trying to save them.
2. Cost of insurance may increase.
3. Fredom to go to sea may be restricted by compulsary licencing.
4. Can give sailing a bad name.
5. Their incompetence may result in YOUR boat being damaged.

I am sure there are others many can think of. If (and I do stress the If) they were incompetent and the results of this incompetence has a knock on effect to many others I can understand the possibility of anger.
 
Re: What a plonker!

I agree completely with your sentiments. I find it hard to believe that there are people on this forum that seem to be saying - "We should not allow anyone else to enjoy our sport unless they haven proven themselves competent to do so." Hardly a way to encourage newcomers.

If there is a published investigation we will know more. In the meantime, here is my assesment FWIW. Probably incompetent guy cocked up badly. When most of us cock up (and I will admit that I probably cock up more than I should) it usually does not cost us the boat. Maybe scratches on the topsides, a torn sail, or if we are lucky just a little bit of pride and nothing more. Hopefully we learn our lesson and don't repeat the mistake. This guy was really unfortunate and it did cost him his pride and joy - brand new boat.

I for one hope he does have insurance and that he settles his claim - AND that if he does go out on the water again, he has learned a very big lesson that will make him a safer boater - maybe safer in the long run than he would have been without this.
 
Re: What a plonker!

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3. Fredom to go to sea may be restricted by compulsary licencing.


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Why should freedom to go to sea be restricted by compulsory competence certification?
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

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Actually I feel the broker should pay. Guy turns up, obviously very inexperienced. Broker flogs boat, least they should have done was organise some proper training courses for the guy rather than say "Oh its dead easy. Just pass your cheque over." Hope the salesman feels a tad guilty.

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I trust you would refuse to sell your boat to someone who is "obviously inexperienced", or organise some courses for him and insist on seeing the certificates before you accept his cheque? Would you expect to be held liable after the fact if the inexperienced purchaser drowned after falling off?

I know you are just trying to be provocative - but inject it with a bit of reason!

I didn't think I would see the day that Jimi argued in favour of compulsory certification!
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

Oh come on, its quarter of a bleedin million, least you can do as a responsible person is make an effort to get the guy safe.

I've always argued for compulsory certification. I know its not popular but I've seen too many idiots with and without experience that

1) a day's course in close quarter boat handling would make the world of difference
2) Do'nt have a clue about CR
3) Ai'nt got a clue about weather
4) No basic sea sense

It can be a dangerous pastime and a responsible attitude by suppliers to the industry partic to newbies who do'nt know what is involved is IMHO required. This involves pointing out the level of experience generally required to skipper. Imagine these two trying to charter with their qualifications even in the Solent never mind outside it? OK you can't stop them buying but they can offer onboard training as part of the deal. HAd there been two deaths ....
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

Maybe, given the number of autopilot horror stories on here, we should ban them. Or at least have them rigged to the GPS to switch off within a mile of land!
 
Re: What a plonker!

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...... the results of this incompetence has a knock on effect to many others I can understand the possibility of anger.

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I think that you are over estimating the consequences of the loss of one yacht and to put the blame for all that on this one individual is a bit extreme.
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

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Oh come on, its quarter of a bleedin million, least you can do as a responsible person is make an effort to get the guy safe.


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If he's got 1/4 million to drop on his first yacht, you'd think he had the mental capacity to make sure he was safe himself surely?

Can't get my head round this concept of yours that the seller of something is somehow responsible for the purchasers safety in using it.

As has been said above, if you sold your boat, exactly what lengths would you go to make oyur purchaser prove his competence? A rigourous round of taxing exercises over the course of a week or two perhaps, with the threat that you would refuse to sell him the boat if he didn't pass? I doubt it somehow.

If I went out and bought a helicopter tomorrow I'd make damn sure I knew how to fly it befoe I attempted to take off, I wouldn't expect the seller to be responsible for me.
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

What about other pastimes and sports? For example, I've always argued against certification for climbers, although many people believe that they should all be taken away in straitjackets.
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

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Can't get my head round this concept of yours that the seller of something is somehow responsible for the purchasers safety in using it.

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Not actually what I meant. I meant a responsible seller should make an effort to make the purchaser aware of the safety consequences of using the product, particularly where thaey are aware its a naive newbie.. whether its a yacht,motorbike or high explosives.
I've seen brokers in action, telling concerned newbies that there's nothing to it and they'll soon get the hang of it. Wonder if that was the case here?
 
Re: What a plonker!

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[quote
3. Fredom to go to sea may be restricted by compulsary licencing.


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Why should freedom to go to sea be restricted by compulsory competence certification?

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I think I am actually with you on this one (reading some of your other posts) I think most people should go through the RYA scheme. My difficulty is that reading some posts there are obviously some able and very experienced skippers who don't need and would object to compulsary licensing.

Should a person that has been competently taught by a friend and has build up many sea miles be prevented from going to sea due to the lack of a relevent piece of paper. There is no correct answer but while accidents happen through incompetence we will get calls for compulsary licences and I agree with those who say pieces of paper don't necessarily make you competent.
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

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The car salesman can't give you a car until you have insurance

[/ QUOTE ] Only if it's on finance. If you are paying cash they don't give a shite.
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

never bought a car on finance always with cash .. maybe I go to a better class of dealer!
 
Re: What a plonker!

I could very well find myself in the same position as the unfortunate chap skippering this yacht.

Went on a competent crew course with my partner, both absolutely hooked, bought an old yacht, spent the winter doing it up and about to employ a professional to take us to the next level of knowledge when I hope we will feel competent enough to take her out on our own to gain experience. Rather like passing my driving test when I was 17, once I had my license, I then required experience to make me safe. The license merely gave me the knowledge to gain the experience safely. Did I make mistakes during this period and put myself and other road users at risk in doing so - I am afraid I did. (And still do occasionally!)

As a sailing novice I sometimes feel terribly inadequate as it does seem to me at times that there must be a sailing gene that I am lacking.
 
Re: What a plonker!

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... There is no correct answer but while accidents happen through incompetence we will get calls for compulsary licences and I agree with those who say pieces of paper don't necessarily make you competent.

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Accidents will always happen through incompetence, regardless of compulsory licensing or not. There are those who will say there will be fewer accidents with compulsory licensing and although this might be true, it also might not be true. This guy, after all, did have SOME formal certification already and on paper he might compare favourably with me, whose last formal course was nearly 20 years ago.

Perhaps I am not reading enough UK newspapers, but are there any "calls for compulsory licences" anywhere other than on this forum?
 
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