Yacht breaks up off Anvil Point

Re: Flotation man sinks.

Actually I feel the broker should pay. Guy turns up, obviously very inexperienced. Broker flogs boat, least they should have done was organise some proper training courses for the guy rather than say "Oh its dead easy. Just pass your cheque over." Hope the salesman feels a tad guilty.
 
Re: qualifications - yes but

[ QUOTE ]

Lowly qualifications are often - tho not always- the deadweight sign of the Useless People, eager to prove they aren't useless...

This is perhaps the pompous post i have made for ages.


[/ QUOTE ]
If you run for parliament you have my postal vote and all my neighbour’s as well.
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

See what you mean, but perhaps a little bit optimisic .....
If I was his insurance company I would be looking at any claim very carefully.....
To draw a parallel with motor policies which don't pay out if you leave the keys in when paying for petrol for example is there a "complete plonker" clause in most marine policies?
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

If some of the supposition turns out to be correct, and the sinking was caused by negligence/incompetence/whatever, then I sincerely hope that the insurance company refuses to pay out and that this gets publicised as well. This stuff can only get the rest of us a bad name and bring on the day when we get examined/licensed/policed (and have to pay for the privilege).
I'll go away and calm down now.
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

The way some folks are going on about the "Competant Crew" business (has that been coroborated anywhere else?) you'd think that qualifications are already all-important in discerning competancy.

Rick
 
Re: Flotation man sinks.

[ QUOTE ]
The way some folks are going on about the "Competant Crew" business (has that been coroborated anywhere else?) you'd think that qualifications are already all-important in discerning competancy.

Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

Its the only way to measure when there is no experience
 
Re: What a plonker!

[ QUOTE ]
Why does that make him a plonker. If his rudder jammed or he had a mechanical problem that caused the problem to happen being a YM probably wouldn't have helped hom If I ran my boat on to the rocks due to a problem I had no control over would you call me a plonker as I don't even hold a competent crew certificate ? I haven't finished reading all the threads yet but there seems to be very little sympathy for someone who might have been killed and has lost his pride and joy. Allow me to be the first to express sympathy and relief that no one was injured. !!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said, the voice of reason! I came back last night to this on the news and then on the forum but it seems to me that the one thing missing is any real facts to explain WHY it happened as opposed to WHAT happened. That doesn't apparently stop the armchair pundits however from guessing the facts and criticising come what may, they may be right but it would be useful to have real facts to go on.

For the record for those who don't know the area, the cliffs are very steep to and it is quite normal to be close in, although most people will consider 'close' to really be quite a bit away as the cliffs are high and feel threatening. The tide runs past here FAST (could be 4kts) and along not towards the cliffs. The wind was not I believe onshore, if it was SW it was pretty much dead on the tail. The course for the Solent from the western approach to Anvil would have been to take them more away rather than towards the cliffs unless maybe a WPT had been set close in to Anvil Point itself and was being slavishly followed. Personally if Solent bound I would have turned more east once through the rough water off the east of St Albans Head, the previous headland and that would be moving away from the cliffs.

As for calls for licensing and qualifications, there are as many daft Yachtmasters as there are daft motorists, so IMO a bit of paper has most use in the heads, maybe where the owner was at the time? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: What a plonker!

Oh come on Robin, running onto rocks is a bit more than close. I've climbed extensively there and taken the boat very close in to admire situations of past exploits. To hit a rock is recklessly close like within a few metres of the shore. From what I saw there was a sizeable onshore swell and I do beleive there was some south on the wind and anybody with a bit of sea sense keeps a bit of sea room if possible to deal with the unexpected... apertic on a lee shore. Can't see there was any defensible here at all. All are safe so no issue there.
 
Re: What a plonker!

It's true that we don't know whether there was a mechanical failure or how long the skipper was down below, but we do know that an inexperienced skipper (with the lowest level of qualification) let an even more inexperienced crew member take over the helm in a place where there is no margin for error, and (probably) with the sails up and wind behind them which would make steering very awkward in a gust.

Clearly he lacked common sense but mostly you get a few scares in early situations and learn from that - his misfortune was that his first real scare ended up terminal for the boat, but fortunately not for himself or his crew. Would it have happened to somebody experienced or somebody who was a YM? Possible of course but surely far far less likely, as experience and training do count for something.

Re. the armchair pundits comment - isn't that what the forum is all about, and I'm sure we'll change our positions accordingly once we find out more.
 
Re: What a plonker!

quite right, this is indeed the very place for armchair punditry. We'll change our position without a doubt with more info - RupertW is in my chair for starters...
 
Breeze effect

Funny things happen to breezes under cliffs, all sorts of bends and eddies. Guess it's possible something like that happened, the boat was taken aback and tacked involuntarily or gybed without warning, tyro helm and Crunch. Would also explain why the damage was on the 'unexpected' side.
 
Re: What a plonker!

Guess we will never really learn the truth, my guess was either a pot rope round the prop or rudder for things to go wrong that fast or else the real story is they were both down below enjoying the comforts of the bunk with Raymarine at the helm!!!! though I doubt that one as the video footage shows they were both fully kitted out in foulies......as for all the talk about RYA certification, what has that to do with it??? there are some yachtmasters out there I would not let loose in a plastic duck!!! There is no greater thing than experiance, to have the correct piece of paper means nothing!!!

Paul.
 
Re: Breeze effect

and it takes a little while to sort out a boat that suddenly charges in an unexpected direction and doesn't respond to steering. Working out which ropes to let go and how all takes precious time, which is what sea-room is all about.

I remember early on in my sailing experience, taking a long two or three minutes stopping a boat from charging towards the Peacehaven cliffs, genuinely baffled as to why the steering wasn't working and actually hauled down the main to get control back. I was lucky that I was a good five minutes sail away from grounding.
 
Re: What a plonker!

On my chart, it doesn't show any rocks or underwater obstructions around there: it doesn't even show a drying area, suggesting that the boat pretty much drove straight into the rocks at the base of the cliffs...

dv.
 
Re: What a plonker!

I am not really surprised by this incident having been within milimeters of being hit by Wellworthy in Yarmouth harbour the previous weekend. There was a clearly incompetent male at the helm and a poor helpless female at the bow. They got caught cross-tide by trying to turn the 47ft boat in the narrow fairway. The skipper had clearly not taken the flooding tide into account correctly before starting the manoevre in a fairway not much longer that his boat. Having slammed the gear leaver into "full ahead" after being yelled at by me, he almost took out the Harbour Master's launch and got yelled at by him! The harbour master then tried to take their lines but the boat got swept upstream (going astern) by the tide and eventually colided with a section of pontoon that by a miracle was unoccupied which is most unusual for Yarmouth. I would be interested to see the Yarmouth Harbour Master's views on the incident. It must have ranked as one of the most incompetent bits of seamanship I have seen - and I felt terriblysorry for the lady at the bow who was completely helpless.

I said to my crew that it would not be long before the chap caused some serious damage – he clearly did not have a clue – and nine days later did not have a boat either!
 
Re: What a plonker!

[ QUOTE ]
There is no greater thing than experiance, to have the correct piece of paper means nothing!!!

Paul.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're overstating the case there. Courses are surely a good way to learn the skills along with gaining experience and the YM covers a lot of the areas where skills are needed.

Conversely there are boat owners out there who take their own boat from their home marina to a couple of other known ones for many many years without learning more than the absolute minimum. I'd go for experience first, but a course may round off the experience, or be the beginnings of a substitute for it.
 
Re: What a plonker!

On experience and skippering, didn't Chay Blyth set off on a Round the World Race not knowing anything about navigation?
 
Re: What a plonker!

I can see no good reason to be anywhere near the base of the cliff. Myself, I would have been a good mile out normally more.
As we lawyers say the thing speaks for it's self..... broken boat = plonker.
Post about Yarmouth (if same skipper) just reinforces the piont!
 
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