Neil
Well-known member
Many small sailing boats, Drascombes, Bayraiders to name but two, are equipped with a small mizzen mast and sail. What is it about this size of boat that requires a mizzen to balance the main and jib?
Why a mizzen?
- Thread starter Neil
- Start date
sarabande
Well-known member
It keeps the main mast lower than would be otherwise needed, and provides greater flexibility of sail area .
DownWest
Well-known member
Not in the water yet, but my cat yawl gives choices of reefing. Big one in the main, then the mizzen. Leaves not so much up. but balanced before drastic.
LittleSister
Well-known member
Sometimes used to enable all the spars to be of a length that can be stored within the hull.
Also, in the case of yawls, usually better looking than sloops! (Ketches not so much, in my view.)
geem
Well-known member
You don't think so?
coopec
N/A
I think people turned away from ketches, yawls and schooners because they looked ugly.
JOHN ALDEN SCHOONER
JOHN ALDEN SCHOONER
Last edited:
coopec
N/A
My yacht is a ketch. If it looks half as good as Galatea I'll be happy! 
Stemar
Well-known member
Smaller sails reduce loads when hoisting, furling and sheeting. With modern winches, that probably isn't so important, but before such modern luxuries, it was. It also made for lighter sails before polyester.
Robin
Well-known member
I think people turned away from ketches, yawls and schooners because they looked ugly.
JOHN ALDEN SCHOONER
not keen on that stripey extra sail at all.
Neeves
Well-known member
No-one appears to address the OPs question
The answers are valid for 50' vessels but hardly valid for a yacht 25' long
Why a mizzen when the sails are so small anyway? (on a small vessel)
Jonathan
geem
Well-known member
Because they look nice?
If you build a retro style boat then a retro style rig suits. In addition you can sail it with jib and mizzen when breezy. Makes sail handling a doddle, the low centre of effort keeps the boat upright and dry. Probably quite desirable on a small boat in choppy seas. Just a guess
DownWest
Well-known member
On small tippy boats, a low centre of effort but with reasonable efficient sails works. Apart from a steel plate, things like Drascombes don't have ballast? Also spaces out the masts from the sitting areas.
Bayraiders have water ballast IIRR
Bayraiders have water ballast IIRR
roaringgirl
Well-known member
1. Increased choice of sailplan esp. in stronger winds
2. Lower centre of effort for less heeling
3. Mizzen increases ability to balance the sails to reduce weather helm
4. Mainmast further forward which is advantageous when on a run - the boat wants to point downwind.
5. Smaller sails easier to handle
2. Lower centre of effort for less heeling
3. Mizzen increases ability to balance the sails to reduce weather helm
4. Mainmast further forward which is advantageous when on a run - the boat wants to point downwind.
5. Smaller sails easier to handle
Neil
Well-known member
It just seems to me that smaller modern production boats often have a mizzen whereas most modern larger boats do not. Why do such advantages of a mizzen not translate to bigger boats?
Supertramp
Well-known member
By smaller I take you to mean dayboat size, where the boat is often designed to be trailed. The costs are not much more than a sloop as the rig can be light and simple. I have always thought the Drascombe rig looked very snug in strong winds under mizzen and jib.
I think as the boat gets bigger, the option gets costly and creates obstructions around the cockpit. Westerly used to offer ketch options and many people with them are happy to sacrifice some space and performance for the benefits. A 30 ft ketch under mizzen and jib looks much better balanced than genoa only or a part furled baggy sail.
Roaringgirl post #13 sums it up well and I would add the benefit as a steadying sail when motoring or at anchor.
I would feel under equipped without my mizzen (despite the higher costs, slower speed etc). Its also my most worn sail.
Biggles Wader
Well-known member
The tiny mizzen on the Drascombe range doesnt provide much drive and is really there as a steadying sail to give balance---and for looks. It harks back to the rig on the naval whaler. Are there any of them left?
Leighb
Well-known member
I owned a Devon Yawl for many years. One advantage of the mizzen not so far mentioned was that if wind was against the tide on the mooring I could often set the mizzen first, small enough not to be a problem, the boat would usually then swing into the wind or near enough such that the main could then be hoisted before dropping the mooring. A real advantage if single handed. On a breezy day with lots of family on board she sailed well with jib and mizzen and no risk of anyone getting clouted by the boom.
As far as performance was concerned the mizzen was probably a hindrance. Certainly the Class Rules of the Salcombe Yawl, from which the Devon Yawl was derived, require that the mizzen shall be set at all times as they sailed faster without.
As far as performance was concerned the mizzen was probably a hindrance. Certainly the Class Rules of the Salcombe Yawl, from which the Devon Yawl was derived, require that the mizzen shall be set at all times as they sailed faster without.
Supertramp
Well-known member
Agree - the balancing of the boat is a big part of it. My mizzen is quite large and will provide drive but is often used to balance the main and jib. I know its right when I can cleat the wheel centrally and let the boat steer herself.
Supertramp
Well-known member
Agree with you about the comfort factor and anchoring. I can drop and retrieve my anchor under sail using the mizzen to stop the bow blowing off, which makes handling 10t of boat simple.
The real point is that if you want to sail in a traditional way with minimum use of engine and autopilots then a mizzen can be useful. If you sail in a modern way, using the engine for all manouver and not worrying if the boats sail plan is balanced then a mizzen is of no use. Both are valid ways to sail.
TLouth7
Active member
The point of the mizzen on such small, open boats is to balance the sailplan with a mainmast that is rather far forward. This in turn keeps the centre of the boat clear for the activities that the boat is intended for: notably fishing and rowing. Or for a modern user it makes more cockpit space for the crew.
