Who should be blamed in this collision???

[VicS]

You are all trying to judge what happened based simply on a You Tube video.

None of you know what was said by the escort boat to the sailing boat or when it was said, you dont know what the rate of turn of the tanker was, was it turning at all? You can only guess from the video where the yacht was before it came into view, how long had it been in the exclusion zone? From the video, you can only see what was in front, by a short distance, and to the port side of the tanker. What was happening on the stbd side? Was anything else happening on the stbd side?

I dont believe any of you know the answers to any of these questions and I'm sure there will be a lot of other evidence available to the MAIB or ABP for their investigation that is currently only known by certain people who are not sharing that information on the forum, leaving the rest of us to guess.

Of course it was turning. Thats what they do there. Having come up the eastern Solent and south of the Brambles they turn to pass west of the Brambles up Southampton water!

IIRC on the original thread there was diagram to show typical paths of vessels through this area. Similar to This one

Yes we do know how fast it was turning. The AIS log showed that in the space of 15 minutes the course changed from 271° off East Cowes to 272° then to 312°, off Egypt Point where the collision occurred, to 020° between NE Gurnard and W Bramble as it aproached the Thorn Channel.

 

[Poignard]

Of course it was turning. Thats what they do there. Having come up the eastern Solent and south of the Brambles they turn to pass west of the Brambles up Southampton water!

IIRC on the original thread there was diagram to show typical paths of vessels through this area. Similar to This one

And, as it clearly says on the diagram:

'TYPICAL TRACKS OF LARGE COMMERCIAL VESSELS
NOTE: These vessels may be encountered anywhere within the Precautionary Area.'

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Doesn't the article in PBO show the 'actual' track of the ship in this incident and intimate fairly clearly that to be as close to shipping as most of the yachts shown in the u tube video, that a lot of skippers were breaking the law.
Which makes me ask why on earth are races set up to have a course in or near a zone that could encourage this to happen?

Shouldn't 'Cowes' races be moved out of that particular area when commerce needs to get on with things, or isn't that important... or perhaps Cowes races are deemed more important?

From seeing ships going through races in the Solent on many occassions it has surely been an accident waiting to happen. Thank goodness no lives were lost.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Of course it was turning. Thats what they do there. Having come up the eastern Solent and south of the Brambles they turn to pass west of the Brambles up Southampton water!

IIRC on the original thread there was diagram to show typical paths of vessels through this area. Similar to This one

Yes we do know how fast it was turning. The AIS log showed that in the space of 15 minutes the course changed from 271° off East Cowes to 272° then to 312°, off Egypt Point where the collision occurred, to 020° between NE Gurnard and W Bramble as it aproached the Thorn Channel.

Of course! How remiss of me, the AIS records!

 

[Leonidas]

Thank you for so eloquently restate my point of view.

 

[alahol2]

Just to play devil's advocate... isn't it just as much folly to bring a thumping great tanker into an area that is known to be swarming with small craft?

Discuss, without mentioning 'commerce' after all why should 'commerce' have priority over human life?

 

[fireball]

Doesn't the article in PBO show the 'actual' track of the ship in this incident and intimate fairly clearly that to be as close to shipping as most of the yachts shown in the u tube video, that a lot of skippers were breaking the law.
Which makes me ask why on earth are races set up to have a course in or near a zone that could encourage this to happen?

Shouldn't 'Cowes' races be moved out of that particular area when commerce needs to get on with things, or isn't that important... or perhaps Cowes races are deemed more important?

From seeing ships going through races in the Solent on many occassions it has surely been an accident waiting to happen. Thank goodness no lives were lost.

Telephoto lenses can be deceiving ...

Racing goes on throughout the year - with most courses crossing one or more channels used by commercial traffic - mostly without incident ..

The few incidents are usually caused by the skippers not complying with colregs and local laws/regulations.

So - let's spoil everyones enjoyment because a few skippers might get it wrong.

 

[flaming]

Just to play devil's advocate... isn't it just as much folly to bring a thumping great tanker into an area that is known to be swarming with small craft?

Discuss, without mentioning 'commerce' after all why should 'commerce' have priority over human life?

Interesting thought. During Cowes racing is only taking place from about 1030 to 1600. Which leaves 19.5 hours of empty solent that ships could use if it is seen as a problem to have them coming through racing fleets.

(n.b. I don't think this is necessary, but there is a lot of time during Cowes week that the pubs are busier than the water...)

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

So - let's spoil everyones enjoyment because a few skippers might get it wrong.

That's exactly what is likely to happen as 'authorities' could well tighten up on the reg's and their policing of them due to things getting too close for comfort. .....and why not if it's only for the good of those who need protecting from themselves?

A similar thing happened in another sport I was heavily involved in for 50 years. A few people pushed the boundaries too far until inexperienced people considered it the norm' and lives were nearly lost.
The 'authorities' had no option and came down heavily on all. Our access to facilities became rediculously limited because of it.

 

[Poignard]

Have there been many collisions between ships and boats in the Solent?

 

[Simondjuk]

Seeing as this is such a highly visible incident with what could have very easily been multiple fatalities, the MAIB would find it difficult to justify not investigating.

The MAIB investigate any and all incidents they consider relevant to marine safety and learning regardless of commercial, fishing or leisure. Just take a look at their reports which make for very interesting reading.

I think you've answered your first point with your second there. There's no learning to be had out of an investigation. Everyone already knows what happens if a little plastic boat ends up under the bows of a big steel boat. The only other question is why the yacht ended up there, which is also self-evident - they failed to observe the Colregs.

 

[Heckler]

Interesting thought. During Cowes racing is only taking place from about 1030 to 1600. Which leaves 19.5 hours of empty solent that ships could use if it is seen as a problem to have them coming through racing fleets.

(n.b. I don't think this is necessary, but there is a lot of time during Cowes week that the pubs are busier than the water...)

Very enlightening, indicative of a mindset
"Which leaves 19.5 hours of empty solent that ships could use if it is seen as a problem to have them coming through racing fleets."
So "racing fleets" are seen as an entity that have to be negotiated? Racing boats have to comply with the rules the same as everyone else!
Stay behind and do a hundred lines!
"When I am racing I am the same as everyone else!"
Stu

 

[Poignard]

There are other constraints on when ships can enter or leave Southampton - tidal height, availability of pilots, availability of berths, readiness of cargo etc.

I don't suppose owners and charterers would be very pleased if ships were to be delayed by a yacht race.

 

[alahol2]

I don't suppose owners and charterers would be very pleased if ships were to be delayed by a yacht race.

Maybe not but, equally, why should 1000+ sailors be inconvenienced by a few ship owners/charterers?

 

[Ariadne]

Maybe not but, equally, why should 1000+ sailors be inconvenienced by a few ship owners/charterers?

FFS! are you real?

 

[Oscarpop]

FFS! are you real?

+1

What a stupid thing to say! Racers are essentially middle aged men with issues who decide to spend their weekends b*ggering about on the water and trying to prove to other middle aged men that they are superior ,because their toys are faster.

It is inconsequential compared to the movement of commerce and trade which will hopefully eventually enable us to function as a nation.

 

[colingr]

++1

 

[alahol2]

FFS! are you real?

+1

What a stupid thing to say!

...Tee Hee...

 

[l'escargot]

Maybe not but, equally, why should 1000+ sailors be inconvenienced by a few ship owners/charterers?

Exactly. Would they cancel the London Marathon because it interfered with deliveries by Tesco/Sainsbury's lorries? What about the Olympics and the impact on people just getting to work across London? Why is there this belief held by some people that commerce should have priority?

 

[l'escargot]

...function as a nation.

What tripe! A dozen or so container ships and tankers delayed, so what.

The impact on us "...function(ing) as a nation". What's it going to do, bring down the empire? Get real.