which cabin heater?

[V1701]

...Im a bit gutted to hear about eberspachers' getting coked up on low.
does anyone else have experience of this?

I'm afraid so, ran one on low for extended periods over last winter and it ended up badly coked up. It was a newly installed unit (D2 Airtronic), properly installed but I did run it on red diesel not white. I'm afraid I wouldn't have another blown air heater but am thinking of fitting a Refleks if it will fit in the boat. I believe the Refleks heaters are used a lot by fishing boats, if you do decide on one Hartlepool Marine Supplies are good value (best price I've been able to find anyway)...

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Hi,
I had an Eber on my last boat, it never ran for more than about 18months before coking up. I've got a Webasto on my current boat, now just completed its 4th season with no problems. It runs flat out when it starts until the boat warms up then cuts it's self back to the lowest setting, I run it for most of the time, just to keep the boat feeling warm and dry (North of Scotland, so it seldom gets that warm).
It’s really important to insulate the ducts really well, if you don’t you’ll waste a lot of heat, especially if the hot air heater is installed well aft. They also make quite a lot of noise when running flat out, but are barely audible on the lower setting.
I find that with 300amp hrs of domestic battery power and a 20watt solar panel, I can run the boat for about 2 days without starting the engine, but I find that I run out of hot water long before that. If I was specifying a heating system now, I’d use a “wet “system, with matrix heaters and the ability to heat domestic hot water. I’d also plumb in the fresh water cooling from the engine to make use of the “free” heat when running the engine.
I find it hard to estimate the fuel consumption; it runs on red diesel from the same tank as the engine.

 

[contessaman]

Hi,
I had an Eber on my last boat, it never ran for more than about 18months before coking up. I've got a Webasto on my current boat, now just completed its 4th season with no problems. It runs flat out when it starts until the boat warms up then cuts it's self back to the lowest setting, I run it for most of the time, just to keep the boat feeling warm and dry (North of Scotland, so it seldom gets that warm).
It’s really important to insulate the ducts really well, if you don’t you’ll waste a lot of heat, especially if the hot air heater is installed well aft. They also make quite a lot of noise when running flat out, but are barely audible on the lower setting.
I find that with 300amp hrs of domestic battery power and a 20watt solar panel, I can run the boat for about 2 days without starting the engine, but I find that I run out of hot water long before that. If I was specifying a heating system now, I’d use a “wet “system, with matrix heaters and the ability to heat domestic hot water. I’d also plumb in the fresh water cooling from the engine to make use of the “free” heat when running the engine.
I find it hard to estimate the fuel consumption; it runs on red diesel from the same tank as the engine.

hey thats interesting, thanks. I was wondering if theres much to choose between eber or webasto. Its certainly looking like I need a hard working D2 not a lazy D4 if its going to work. (or webasto airtop equivalent). Im away at the moment but have been studying the pictures of the cabin on the new boat to see if there is somewhere to mount a taylors. My old boat had a nice big bulkhead just next to the keel stepped mast. this new one has a horeshoe shaped berth arrangement so I cant mount it there without loosing some seating space. Plus my better half is still very much set againt the 'non baby friendly' dripfeed stove. That said seems like lots of people have had reliability issues with blown air heating. my old taylors never let me down.
perhaps a stainless clad hearth set into a bulkhead with a mesh guard over it might work.

somebody mentioned hot water - the taylors have a facility for a convective coil - basically a few turns of copper pipe around the burner can. plumbed into a calorifier should soon do the business on that front.

the other trouble is a really neat installation of a dripfeed heater costs a lot of time and money. lots of experimenting with flue lenghts and positions to work well. doesnt bode well for doing it in time for this winter!

 

[Ludd]

It's comments like this which make you wonder about a boatowner's sense of perspective. That draw represents a tiny fraction of an Ah. If the boat's electrical system can't cope with that, the heater shouldn't have been fitted in the first place.

+1

Hade Ebers in trucks for 30 years,never had problems.
Have one in this boat(D4) run on white ,no probs.
Down here not really needed, but gets fired up at least once a month.That way,they run for ever.

 

[cpedw]

I can confirm Ian's experience. We have had a Webasto Airtop 3500 in a 33ft boat for 6 or 7 years. It has never failed to start even though we have some battery charging problems - no need to run the engine to start it. It seems to tolerate low voltage well. It has never failed, except when the outlet duct fell off but that's down to the installer.
I haven't checked its diesel or electric consumption but neither has seemed substantial. It was only used occasionally during its first years but last winter it was operated regularly. It uses whatever is in the engine fuel tank, normally red diesel, through the primary separator/filter and its own little inline filter.
At the time I bought it, the impression I got was that it's a close copy of Ebers but from what I hear, it's a significant improvement on them.
Derek

 

[Victoria Sponge]

We've got a Mikuni and I cannot recommend it too highly.

http://www.mikuniheating.com/

No connection.

 

[sailinglegend420]

Another posting on "How do you keep warm" on Liveaboard forum:http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288744

My posting there was:

Search the archives for lots on this.

We have a 12,000 BTU reverse cycle 240v Air Conditioner/Heater unit. Takes 1,000 watts AC and gives out 3,000 watts of heat by taking the extra energy out of the water. This is not a wind up - it really works. Air ducts to all the cabins keep down the damp - and its a real boom with the air con in the med in July and August. Even has an auto-dehumidifier mode for when you leave the boat.

****************************************************************

 

[pmagowan]

We have an eber. Runs on whatever I put in the tank. One of the best bits of kit we have. Only a 28' boat but the eber heats it well, quickly and I don't notice either the fuel or the battery. I did make my whole electrical system from scratch but I only have a 120AH house and with the eber on all night there is not a significant drain. I don't let the battery go below 50% ever and normally will note it as an exception if below 80%. It does mostly run hard but gets turned low for at night. I think most of the problems people are getting is because they have not sized the unit correctly.

 

[SHUG]

An alternative approach is to use the waste engine heat when underway. Here is a cheap option from ASAP
http://www.asap-supplies.com/search/heater/hotpot-cabin-heater-722112

 

[Bosun Higgs]

We have just had one thread by a chap who had removed his carbon monoxide detector after finding it alarming when using his Blakes heater. I have had two sailing pals both of whom have had a cabin fire using and open flame type heater - in one case the deck burned through. Put that lot together and I wouldnt dream of having anything other than blown warm air even if I didnt have a child on board.

I dont think there is any place on board a small boat for a primitive flame type heater

 

[rickym]

Had a Webasto on the last boat 4 years faultless running. Just ran it once a month flat out as I was recommended to do. No starting/voltage problems, seemed to use little power when up to speed/temp, just sounded like a jet taking off when at full power/start-up.

we were based on a swinging mooring so relied on a wind turbine to charge the batteries, nevwe had a problem and would buy one again.

 

[contessaman]

wonder if these are any good? any experience of this out there?

http://www.vikingmarine.co.uk/heater/index.htm

 

[longjohnsilver]

We've got a Mikuni and I cannot recommend it too highly.

http://www.mikuniheating.com/

No connection.

I'd second that, but now have a Webasto on our current boat which has also performed faultlessly.

 

[David2452]

wonder if these are any good? any experience of this out there?

http://www.vikingmarine.co.uk/heater/index.htm

Not bad at all, in fact quite good in the right installation and thereby is the disadvantage of the things. They become restrictive to the installer due to maximum exhaust lengths, maximum duct runs and quite large (when compared with Webo, Ebo etc.) distances that the unit must be installed from bulkheads. I guess the duct runs could be increased by fitting a boost blower as with Wallas but is it worth the extra current draw and clat.

 

[contessaman]

Not bad at all, in fact quite good in the right installation and thereby is the disadvantage of the things. They become restrictive to the installer due to maximum exhaust lengths, maximum duct runs and quite large (when compared with Webo, Ebo etc.) distances that the unit must be installed from bulkheads. I guess the duct runs could be increased by fitting a boost blower as with Wallas but is it worth the extra current draw and clat.

Does that mean you know of somebody who has fitted one? I would obviously measure up carefully to make sure an installation was feasable. My corncerns were more with reliability, longevity, spares and service-support. It is japanese not chinese and I did a bit of googling - the company has been around for about 50 years, so It should be reasonable quality? Trouble is, if I installed it then it packed up a few years down the line, I would have to change the whole installation whereas with an eber or a webasto the exhaust et all could remain and I could just swap the black box. The balanced flue left over by this wouldnt be muh use fro anything else if it died. Its an attractive price though considering how the kit comes with all the bits.

 

[David2452]

Does that mean you know of somebody who has fitted one? I would obviously measure up carefully to make sure an installation was feasable. My corncerns were more with reliability, longevity, spares and service-support. It is japanese not chinese and I did a bit of googling - the company has been around for about 50 years, so It should be reasonable quality? Trouble is, if I installed it then it packed up a few years down the line, I would have to change the whole installation whereas with an eber or a webasto the exhaust et all could remain and I could just swap the black box. The balanced flue left over by this wouldnt be muh use fro anything else if it died. Its an attractive price though considering how the kit comes with all the bits.

I've seen one or two installations (I hold an autorised Webasto Dealer and service agency among other things so see all sorts) I wouldn't worry too much about the reliability of the things but I would certaly say they are a narrow boat or inland cruiser choice rather than any boat likely to wobble a bit as they apparently do not like angles either. There's no material cost saving, though they do have a bit more output.

 

[Paddingtonbear]

Anybody got any thoughts on charcoal heaters?

 

[contessaman]

Anybody got any thoughts on charcoal heaters?

pretty damn cosy I should think. And not at all un-economical as fuel prices soar. ideal for a livaboard? for me though it would carry all of the problems of a dripfed diesel plus a bit more inconvenience. Certainly think they look and smell the business on a classic though.

When it comes to running costs its easy to forget how much we are all paying for fuel bills at home these days. we had a £400 gas bill after last winter

suddenly a fivers worth of diesel/gas/etc for a warm weekend aboard the boat isnt such a bad deal! that is, unless you leave the heating on at home for the cats. but who'd do a thing like that......

 

[alahol2]

Much of the coking up problem on Ebers can be avoided by running on paraffin. My Eber has now been fitted to my boat for 7-8 years (second hand). I don't use it frequently but I do use it on the low setting. Once I get it started (engine running) I run it for a half hour on high then turn down. Apart from fitting it, I've not touched it since.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Anyone on the forum had experience with the Bengco charcoal heater?

No, but I'd be very cautious - charcoal plus poor ventilation = carbon monoxide.