which cabin heater?

[contessaman]

what cabin heating system do you use???

Just bought a new (to me) boat which does not have a heating system. Its a deck saloon style yacht.

My last boat had a taylors dripfeed heater which I installed with an electric pump from the main tank. It all worked well although was more suited to use in harbour than at sea.

The reason we have changed to a more family friendly boat is that we have just had our first baby. My wife has correctly pointed out that a red hot taylors heater would be an accident waiting to happen with a little girl with inquisitive fingers.

Also, not much point in the inside helm if its just as cold inside as out so the new system will need to be convenient to use at sea.

All this points to a blown air heating system like an eberspacher but alas the current draw seems to be a problem. we spend a lot of time on board but do not have access to shore power.

Can you please recommend alternative forms of cabin heating other than the taylors or eberspacher options. Fuel preferably diesel or possibly lpg. something thats safe to leave on while you sleep, can use at sea and preferably does not make gigantic impacts on the 12 volt reserves.

ta,

 

[prv]

Much as I like the idea of Dickinson ranges etc (essentially seagoing Agas), I suspect the best answer in your case is an Eber-style heater and, if necessary, an upgrade of the electrical system.

Pete

 

[contessaman]

Much as I like the idea of Dickinson ranges etc (essentially seagoing Agas), I suspect the best answer in your case is an Eber-style heater and, if necessary, an upgrade of the electrical system.

Pete

'tis the conclusion i came to. just thought I would see if I'd missed anything. There is a large solar panel sized space on top of the wheelhouse.. maybe get a 60watt one up there.

just been looking at a new range bought out by wallas - like an eber but more economical on the 12v. Bit outside my budget though...

 

[CaptainBob]

We have an Eberspacher and live aboard in the UK. Sometimes at anchor, sometimes in the marina.

We now hardly use the Eberspacher. It uses so much electric, and diesel, it's something we use on special occasions only, and only ever when the engine is running or we're plugged in to the mains - at least during startup. It draws something like 13 amps for a good couple of minutes at startup!

On advice from the installer we use only white diesel. It still coked up after a few months use on the lower settings. We were advised to only run it on maximum.

Maybe get another drip fed heater. Your child will soon learn to steer clear. They're silent, use hardly any diesel, and no electric. Perhaps put a guard around it?

Are they really no good at sea?

 

[bedouin]

You could consider a gas blown air heater as an alternative to the eberspacher (e.g. Propex) they have a somewhat lower consumption than the diesel equivalents. They also require much less current to start them, and seem more reliable although they are more expensive to run.

If you've got space you could go for radiators - but that won't save you many amps either.

Most other heaters will be radiant heaters so will be as bad as your Taylor.

If current draw is a problem you may find yourself having to run the engine occasionally - that has the benefit of directly warming the boat and putting some Ah back into the batteries

 

[pvb]

It draws something like 13 amps for a good couple of minutes at startup!

It's comments like this which make you wonder about a boatowner's sense of perspective. That draw represents a tiny fraction of an Ah. If the boat's electrical system can't cope with that, the heater shouldn't have been fitted in the first place.

 

[contessaman]

Are they really no good at sea?

well im not the authority on the matter, but the taylors was hard enough to light in the marina if there was a stiff wind. once its going its alright, but the chimney pot was just a push fit onto the deck fitting. one wave and that would be over the side, or even if not seawater would end up gong down it. then as it relies on the chimney effect to work im not sure how heeling would effect it or the burner.

the other downside was that it took a while to really get going and heat the boat up (have to leave wife and baby in car until its got going) that said it was cosy and didnt use any elecricity (well a few milliamps for the fuel pump doesnt count).

Do eberspachers really use more fuel?

the taylors manual said something like 0.3 lph on full (2kw) whereas eberspacher quote 0.25 lph at 2kw medium setting for their D4 model. they reckon 13 watts which at 12 volts is a little over an amp. I know they take a lot on start up but even 20 amps for a few mins isnt much ampere-hours, its more the cumilative effect of running it continuosly for a few days on board over the winter. even a couple of amps adds up when its on 24-7.

I got thinking about a gas powered heating system, since diesel is so expensive. not so cheap to run off the dumpy gas cylinder during the season - but then shouldnt need it much. then in the winter when it becomes more of a weekend home than a yacht stick a great big calor gas bottle in the cockpit? I dont know. Im just weary of gas. though I guess its there anyway for the cooker....

 

[jdc]

Matrix heater from engine?

One form of heating which is pretty much free (except for the cost of installation of course) is a matrix heater and fan, just like a car heater. One can be got from a scrappie, or a new one bought from Eberspacher or Mikuni. The matrix is plumbed into the the fresh-water cooling circuit of the engine, so it would only work with an indirectly cooled engine I guess.

A diesel engine is only ~20% efficient, ie ~4/5 goes into heat, so there should be plenty to spare even from a small engine hence my comment about it being 'free'. Of course it works only when motoring, but that's a surprisingly high proportion of the time time under way.

I don't know why, but few sailing boat builders seem to fit one - anyone know of reasons not to?

 

[CaptainBob]

well im not the authority on the matter, but the taylors was hard enough to light in the marina if there was a stiff wind....

Ah OK. That's a shame. Otherwise they sound excellent.

Eberspacher. 1A, constantly drawn, will take a toll. And the 13A startup is enough that even with good thick wires to my Eber, the voltage drop is enough to make it fail to start up if the batts aren't very full, or the engine isn't running.

It uses 0.27 litres per hour IIRC which really adds up. And if you turn it down to a lower setting then it starts to coke up. I thought the Taylors type ones could be turned right down to very low?

Our Vapaulx M320 is a godsend. 1.5 litres does 10 hours+ at 1kW heat output. Love it!!

 

[contessaman]

Ah OK. That's a shame. Otherwise they sound excellent.

Eberspacher. 1A, constantly drawn, will take a toll. And the 13A startup is enough that even with good thick wires to my Eber, the voltage drop is enough to make it fail to start up if the batts aren't very full, or the engine isn't running.

It uses 0.27 litres per hour IIRC which really adds up. And if you turn it down to a lower setting then it starts to coke up. I thought the Taylors type ones could be turned right down to very low?

Our Vapaulx M320 is a godsend. 1.5 litres does 10 hours+ at 1kW heat output. Love it!!

oh you could turn it down low. You need to get it up really high when you light it then once its going you could throttle it right back as low as you want really. it was enough on a 34 footer even in the middle of the winter freeze when everything above deck was icy. I cant vouch for the fuel consumption other than that boat only had a 10 gallon tank, filled it up at the start of winter and was about 2/3rds full in the spring. We spent a lot of weekends aboard.

So the taylors is frugal but the misses has decared it a no no. non negotiable. she was weary of the taylors before we had a bambino.

Im a bit gutted to hear about eberspachers' getting coked up on low.
does anyone else have experience of this?

I was going to go for a D4 on the basis that at 4kw I could get the cabin warmed up quick then run it on low which from the spec sheet is under and amp and 0.12 lph. not bad on current and hopefully quiet too.

well. back to the drawing board then. Re: the comment about usng engine heat, I'm after something to use at night all year around. I expect that with the perkins lump under the cabin sole plenty of heat gets out anyway when motoring.

any other ideas out there?

 

[Blueboatman]

Some people do seem to swear by a Reflex ( sp?) diesel heater and a couple of wee radiators and circulating pump.
It sounds as though your new boat would be plenty big enough to enjoy the benefits, congratulations!

 

[Bobobolinsky]

One form of heating which is pretty much free (except for the cost of installation of course) is a matrix heater and fan, just like a car heater. One can be got from a scrappie, or a new one bought from Eberspacher or Mikuni. The matrix is plumbed into the the fresh-water cooling circuit of the engine, so it would only work with an indirectly cooled engine I guess.

A diesel engine is only ~20% efficient, ie ~4/5 goes into heat, so there should be plenty to spare even from a small engine hence my comment about it being 'free'. Of course it works only when motoring, but that's a surprisingly high proportion of the time time under way.

I don't know why, but few sailing boat builders seem to fit one - anyone know of reasons not to?

There is a company called Gallay at Wellingborough, who make matrix/fan in a box 12v or 24v. I just bought a Peck unit, which Krueger had rebranded, peck were taken over by Gallay.

 

[christhefish]

try a reflek heater mine is drip fed so no power drain very econimical even 24/7 can be used at sea,just make sure the flue is long enough ,we survived the snow last winter in shorts and T shirt,and it takes the condensation away which is a real added bonus......just get a guard and flue guard you can also run rads of some models but then you would need a pump

 

[pcatterall]

On the efficiency issue we need to be sure we are comparing like for like. Eberspacher type heaters use fuel in a very efficient manner and provided any heat losses via ducting etc are kept low should use fuel effectivly.
The matrix from engine heat is of course free if you are using the engine and could be linked to a 'wet' eberspacher when there is no engine power.

 

[ghostlymoron]

One form of heating which is pretty much free (except for the cost of installation of course) is a matrix heater and fan, just like a car heater. One can be got from a scrappie, or a new one bought from Eberspacher or Mikuni. The matrix is plumbed into the the fresh-water cooling circuit of the engine, so it would only work with an indirectly cooled engine I guess.

A diesel engine is only ~20% efficient, ie ~4/5 goes into heat, so there should be plenty to spare even from a small engine hence my comment about it being 'free'. Of course it works only when motoring, but that's a surprisingly high proportion of the time time under way.

I don't know why, but few sailing boat builders seem to fit one - anyone know of reasons not to?

Presumably because most sailors like to sail.

 

[galeus]

I have got a Propex gas heater about 1.3kw and it works fine. It was on the boat 10 years ago when I got it and apart from a new roomstat (about £40) it has worked faultlessly and been used regularly. I have considered the next model up and Propex would take the old model in px but they sell for a good price on ebay. If you go on their website you can see current draw which is not a great deal but relative to the size of the heater. We have four gas appliances on the boat so we take things seriously ie a bubble leak detector (which gives a lot of piece of mind) also gas sniffer and bilge blower. It's also not particularly noisy.

 

[aquaplane]

If power draw is a concern the Wallas is probably the best bet.
I have a Wallas 1800 paraffin heater on my 26' boat.
Parents have a 2400 on their 35' deck salloon.

 

[SailingEcosse]

Nice list HERE of pretty much all the heater options there are (or at least that I've been able to find )

 

[surekandoo]

Anyone on the forum had experience with the Bengco charcoal heater?

 

[earlybird]

If power draw is a concern the Wallas is probably the best bet.
I have a Wallas 1800 paraffin heater on my 26' boat.
Parents have a 2400 on their 35' deck salloon.

Seconded:- My 1800 draws ~ 1/3 amp at half heat, tad more at full. Starting places only a very low demand on the battery, so is very reliable.