Wearing Lifejackets Whilst Sailing

[Phoenix of Hamble]

I'll happily take the 'wear it when you want' approach.... should someone else choose, on their own boat not to wear one, then thats perfectly fine by me.... I don't really care what others choose to do.

What however I do get annoyed about is when someone through their actions or words, makes it appear, or implies that, wearing one is 'daft' or 'stupid'. I'll make the decision on my own boat, and I don't need or want, or appreciate in anyway, the (direct or implied) derision and 'superiority complex' some are inclined to show...

I'm with Photodog. I wear mine often, but am inclined to feel a bit daft doing so. This is crazy as it makes absolute sense to wear it, so the only reason for not feeling positive, is that a culture of 'I must be big and clever, as I don't wear one' has pervaded our hobby....

 

[snooks]

many cyclists wear helmets & dark clothes.
No helmet & Bright Clothing would be much safer

Exactly, it's not the helmet or lifejacket that makes you safe, it's how you ride your bike, or your attidute on a boat that makes you a safe cyclist or yachtsman (or yachtsperson)

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

many cyclists wear helmets & dark clothes.
No helmet & Bright Clothing would be much safer

Which is interesting... as if you look carefully, you'll see that the trend for serious cyclist is to wear lots of bright clothing, especially dayglo... leaving the dark colours for beginners/amateurs..... meaning that the pros have realised that they need to be safer..... seems at odds with the trends within sailing, where the less experienced are the ones more likely to wear safety gear....

 

[Slow_boat]

I wear a L/J whenever I feel the need and expect others to do the same. Their choice is none of my business and none of the business of the bloke who wrote the letter to YM.

I wear a boyancy aid in the dinghy. It's easier to swim in and will take rougher treatment than a L/J.

 

[BrianH]

he was single handed on a fast boat l/j irrelevant a harness would have been better as previously stated

But his death was during a fully-crewed voyage on the original Pen Duick, a William Fife design, that his father bought. Tabaraly was swept overboard in June, 1998, while sailing her to Scotland for the boat’s centennial year. I believe he was not wearing any buoyancy when struck by the boom. A search was unable to find him.

True, a harness would probably have saved him. Pen Duick was so original that she did not have guardrails.

AP Online
06-14-1998
PARIS (AP) _ Eric Tabarly, France's best-known yachtsman who crisscrossed oceans to win numerous solo titles, was declared dead Sunday after falling overboard near Wales during the weekend. He was 66.

Tabarly was knocked into the sea late Friday night while changing the main sail as his century-old sailboat _ the Pen Duick _ headed toward Scotland in rough seas, the boat's crew said in a statement.​

 

[Juggler7823]

Fortunately, Lifejackets are not yet compulsory here, - but they are in Ireland.

Lifejackets are NOT compulsory in Eire in larger boats.

 

[snooks]

Which is interesting... as if you look carefully, you'll see that the trend for serious cyclist is to wear lots of bright clothing, especially dayglo... leaving the dark colours for beginners/amateurs..... meaning that the pros have realised that they need to be safer..... seems at odds with the trends within sailing, where the less experienced are the ones more likely to wear safety gear....

I think the "serious" cyclists (or real cyclists as opposed to the POBs, Pedestrians-On-Bikes who think they can ride on pavements and cross red lights) have had too many brushes with bad drivers, and realise the brighter they/we dress up the more chance a numpty driver on their phone has of seeing us.

It's not a case of a cyclist being a pro, it's a case of them having the gear and the bike to get them from A-B and enjoy the journey.

While there are many who wear team kit, it's really no different than a footy fan wearing their teams shirt to play football, and no real indicator of ability.

Although you might struggle to see a tube shy gutter wobbler in lycra

Back to life jackets....would it be reasonable to think that "the less experienced" ones are the ones who haven't been brought up into a sailing family, and been sailing from the age of dot?

And those that have spent their life on the water don't feel the need for a lifejacket?

Just thinking out loud here, I'm not saying either is right or wrong

 

[nathanlee]

For me, unless I am transferring to another vessel or land, life jackets are a liability for the following reasons:

1 The permanent foam type are too bulky and get in the way,

2 The inflateable variety are unreliable: they can fail to inflate, they can split on inflation, and they can be set off in a rain storm,

3 All life jackets give a false sense of security. You might float in the water, but you can still drown, die from hyperthermia or exposure, and are completely useless at keeping you where you should be - on the boat.

1. That's why nobody uses them save for dodgy films about the Titantic.

2. How on earth does that make them a liability? A parachute CAN fail to open, or get tangled, but would you jump out of a plane without one?

"No, sir, I insist you remove my ejector seat. I'd rather know I am definitely going to die, rather than suffer at the hands of favourable odds."

I'm afraid that your second point was utter tosh on all logical levels.

3. Who wears a life jacket because they intend to go in the water? The point of them is that they give you MORE of a chance of survival. It doesn't mean you will be rescued, but it does mean you will almost certainly have better chances of it happening.


Based on your logic, it seems we should be sailing without liferafts since they can fail to inflate and give a false sense of security (you SHOULD NOT HIT THINGS, obviously), or indeed carry flares since they can fail to go off, and give a false sense of security because they might not be seen.

Come on, admit it, you didn't think your post through properly. It's ok, we'll graciously let it fade into the abyss of nonsense that we all occasionally fall foul of.

 

[sailorman]

But his death was during a fully-crewed voyage on the original Pen Duick, a William Fife design, that his father bought. Tabaraly was swept overboard in June, 1998, while sailing her to Scotland for the boat’s centennial year. I believe he was not wearing any buoyancy when struck by the boom. A search was unable to find him.

True, a harness would probably have saved him. Pen Duick was so original that she did not have guardrails.

AP Online
06-14-1998
PARIS (AP) _ Eric Tabarly, France's best-known yachtsman who crisscrossed oceans to win numerous solo titles, was declared dead Sunday after falling overboard near Wales during the weekend. He was 66.

Tabarly was knocked into the sea late Friday night while changing the main sail as his century-old sailboat _ the Pen Duick _ headed toward Scotland in rough seas, the boat's crew said in a statement.​

Yep my mistake

 

[Finbar]

Just for information the legal position in Ireland is as follows:

• A lifejacket/ personal floatation device is carried on board for each person (irrespective of the size of craft) • Everyone on board a craft less than 7.0 metres (23 feet) in length must wear a lifejacket/ personal floatation device • Every child less than 16 years of age must wear a lifejacket/ personal floatation device at all times while on deck when the craft is underway

Seems sensible to me. I am on a swinging mooring in Dun Laoghaire and therefore must wear a lifejacket on the club tender. Having to wear one out to the boat, it becomes habitual, and I and my crew now wear one all the time.

I must admit I never wear one when t-shirt sailing in warm climates - must be something to do with warm seas. Charter boats rarely have the self inflating type and nobody wants to wear the bulky ones.

I had a pub discussion with an English sailor who was told off by the coastguard in Crookhaven for not wearing one when dingying ashore to the pub. The usual stuff about personal choice, but he did carry an EPIRB and would nave been the first to complain if the lifeboat or helicopter failed to arrive. Seems to be a question of balance.

 

[maxi77]

many cyclists wear helmets & dark clothes.
No helmet & Bright Clothing would be much safer

To be honest helmet and bright clothing would be best.

I used to not were a helmet till the day I nearly went over a car door, avoided because I was a trifle more alert than the driver. On the basis the next motorist might be smarter than me I started to wear a helmet because I could see the potential value to me. Now if you don't want to wear a helmet, fine by me but don't try to justify your choice by calling me a wimp.

As for lifejackets, having learnt to sail at BRNC I was never on the water without one, till I started sailing on my own account so as to speak when I rebelled against the earlier compulsion and rarely wore one. Now I assess the risk and were one, with a harness and line, when I think it is needed, which is mainly when working outside the cockpit, thouigh I have seem myself hooked on in the cockpit in bad weather.

I agree the real trick is not going overboard and I concentrate on achieving that, but one has to reckognise the reality of life that sometimes the plan does not work and the lifejacket is the back up.

I have only been involved in a MOB once, and it was amazing how fast the man lost it hwen he was recovered some 90 seconds after going in he was about 30 seconds from starting to drown, this was caused by shock and panic, which would have been greatly reduced if he had been wearing a lifejacket.

Like bike helmets I don't care if others don't want to wear lifejackets or harnesses, that is their choice, just don't go around suggesting I am wrong for choosing to wear mine just to justify your own choice

 

[alant]

I have just read the January issue of YM. The letter of the month by Jonathan Winter admonishes YM for not wearing lifejackets in a 'rising force 6'.

Personally I have only donned my lifejacket once in 10 years of full time cruising, and that was in a hurricane when I feared that I would have to abandon my yacht as it was dragging towards a reef and I thought I might have to jump to dry land. In the end the anchor dug in and all was fine.

I have single-handed, and sailed with a small number of crew. I have always made it quite plain to every person on board that if they fall over the side and become detatched from the boat that they a likely to die. It is very difficult to find them even in broad daylight in an ocean swell, and at night it's almost impossible. If you have 10 crew it may be another matter .... but short-handed, travelling at 8 to 15 knots with a spinnaker up makes the chance of recovery very remote.

I advocate using a safety harness when conditions warrant it. I have two lanyards on all the harnesses on the boat so there is no excuse not to be unclipped. At other times I train my crew not to hold onto the guardrails and to use hand-holds towards the mid-line of the boat. There are always plenty of handholds, and jacklines are set up well inside of the gunwhales so that it is impossible for anyone who is clipped on to get more that their feet wet.

It is very important to learn how to move around on a boat, keeping one hand for the yacht at all times. Likewise each member of the crew must be told of the dangerous areas like the foredeck and in way of loaded sheets, etc..

For me, unless I am transferring to another vessel or land, life jackets are a liability for the following reasons:
1 The permanent foam type are too bulky and get in the way,
2 The inflateable variety are unreliable: they can fail to inflate, they can split on inflation, and they can be set off in a rain storm,
3 All life jackets give a false sense of security. You might float in the water, but you can still drown, die from hyperthermia or exposure, and are completely useless at keeping you where you should be - on the boat.

I guess this might provoke some adverse reaction ....... but it is my experience of 40 years of sailing in dinghies and yachts. I have only had one crew fall over the side and that was on a dinghy where you are expected to get your weight as far over the edge as possible. This is simply not the case with a cruiser.

Sailing in an inland waterway like the Solent, with a full crew to assist, may allow some lee-way regarding wearing of LJ's.

However, my brief to crews, was - always at night/always in fog/always when I as Skipper says so/always if you see me wearing mine/always on top of other clothing/always clip on if you are wearing one.

Always when offshore/Ocean, unclipping at the LJ when inside the companionway -NOT whilst out on deck (strop can then be reclipped inside boat prior to going back on deck).

Most LJ's, apart from some yachts in Med where they have hard ones, being inflatable types with integral harnesses, so easy & comfortable to use.

I also work on commercial 'work boats' & their ethos, even within a metre of the dockside, is instant dismissal if you are on deck NOT wearing your LJ.

I have personally used mine in anger, falling 20' from a large vessel at about 0500 hrs in North Sea when transferring from a smaller one. I was wearing full gear, including hard hat + safety boots when I took the plunge (much different to an exercise on a S/S course).
Luckily, my auto LJ (10yr old Lalizas Omega 150N) worked. Just prior to this trip, I had fitted a crotch strap (all of £5).

So, make your own mind up, usefull or not?

Are you certain your crew (those left onboard) could recover you?

A mate, sailing down the East Coast of South Africa, back to UK from NZ a few years ago, left the centre cockpit, to either pee/adjust some gear at the stern.
It was daylight F6. He went overboard - no LJ.
The helmsman was unable to turn the boat about & called the offwatch other crew, who was unable to free any MOB gear off the stern.
He was never found!

Would his LJ have saved him?
Who knows.
At least it might have given his crew a better chance/time to spot him.

All I know is, if anyone I cared about, got onto any boat which had a Skipper cavalier enough to say -"you don't need a LJ", I would kick him in the *******s to see if there was any sense there!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

many cyclists wear helmets & dark clothes.
No helmet & Bright Clothing would be much safer

And round here. adequate lights after dark would be useful! The police round here have regular drives to catch cyclists without lights, and routinely have to stop a large proportion of cyclists. Their latest wheeze is an on-the-spot fine of about £30 - but they then give you a set of lights!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Sterile argument. Wear one. Or not. Your call.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I used to not were a helmet till the day I nearly went over a car door, avoided because I was a trifle more alert than the driver. On the basis the next motorist might be smarter than me I started to wear a helmet because I could see the potential value to me. Now if you don't want to wear a helmet, fine by me but don't try to justify your choice by calling me a wimp.

I don't wear a bike helmet on engineering grounds: doubling the leverage arm around the cervical vertebrae in the even of a serious bump seems like a bad idea to me. But it's entirely your choice.

 

[LadyInBed]

I don't wear a bike helmet on engineering grounds: doubling the leverage arm around the cervical vertebrae in the even of a serious bump seems like a bad idea to me. But it's entirely your choice.

bike helmet - I never used to as I didn't think they were up to the job. Recently good old Lidl were selling snow boarding helmets which looked much more up to the job, so I bought one and I use it.

On LJ's - I don't use mine, I wear a harness when I feel the need.
When it 's a bit rough, SWMBO wears a foam lifejacket, mainly as a padded protector from pointy things but also as a comfort blanket. She never leaves the (centre) cockpit.

 

[Fantasie 19]

I don't wear a bike helmet on engineering grounds: doubling the leverage arm around the cervical vertebrae in the even of a serious bump seems like a bad idea to me. But it's entirely your choice.

We're way off topic now, but as a cyclist I wouldn't cycle without one - I came off the bike last year and split the helmet from front to back - I walked away from it but I hate to think what would have happened if I wasn't wearing it...

Personal choice though....

 

[Sans Bateau]

Everyone here knows that every summer we get some Lower Level idiots who fancy themselves at a bit of a boaty thing... load up some 15ft 30 year old fletcher with their 10 year old son, brother in law, mate from the pub, and girlfriend, then put out to sea for a day of carling and bass, and end up getting fished out from the beach a cold and stiff corpse... the only survivor being the 10 year old who happened to be the one wearing the lifejacket....

Its not the experienced sailor who has the problems... though try telling that to Chris Evans whose skipper was knocked overboard in the solent off a Swan 37 and ended up unconcious and face down and very dead.... when sailing... though how many of our comrades have been lost on the dinghy after a night on the tiles...

I dunno, I hate these threads... for the simple reason that we wear a LJ all the time.. and these sorts of threads only really help to make me feel like a idiot for doing so... I wonder how many have drowned because they felt foolish for wearing a lifejacket because "They get in the way of the real sailor" or wearing one "is a infringment of my civil liberties....

Well I'm in full agreement with you!

And a message to those who insist on not wearing one:

I'm not necessarily in agreement with legislation, but just spare a thought, if you dont wear a LJ and you go over the side, some poor bu99er has to fish out the corpse, that will most likely be a Life Boat man. I hope your Off Shore subs are up to date.

You cant just take take take and expect someone else to make things better when it all goes wrong, no one will care if you do drown, but there is certain legislation one cant escape from, but dont worry you be here to have to deal with it.

 

[snooks]

We're way off topic now, but as a cyclist I wouldn't cycle without one

Neither would I, but again it's our personal choice.

However there are reasons people don't wear helmets
CTC's stance for example

However this site has the most compelling evidence for not wearing one.

And a final point. If, as a cyclist, you'd like car drivers to give you the most room, the best thing to wear is a blond wig

Right back to life jackets!!!

 

[reginaldon]

Sterile argument. Wear one. Or not. Your call.

Them's my sentiments, never worn one, except as a canoeist; grandson(10) always puts his on and I commend him for it. I think there is a very good case for wearing one certainly until one gets aboard - boat on a mooring.