Wearing Lifejackets Whilst Sailing

[rivonia]

Chance of recovery of a hypothermic corpse, perhaps. If they'd been clipped on, on the other hand, the chance of live recovery would have been near as dammit 100%.

These technical solutions - lifejacket, chartplotter, danbuoy - are all very well, but at the very best they increase your chances from zero to slim. "Not going overboard in the first place" is always the best option. How fast, b the the way, do you think you could get to the chartplotter and danbuoy if the scream woke you from deep sleep?



Always? Always? Do you wear one in your bunk? While eating dinner on a mooring around the cabin table?

Until I got my new boat, I didn't even have lifejackets - I had buoyancy aids and harnesses. For the new boat I have bought harnesses with built in lifejackets: that's the way round I look at it.

Our life jackets all have built in safety harness with crotch strap and full head cover. They are 270 newton

Peter

 

[Stemar]

Reading the anti-LJ posts reminds me of when wearing seat belts in cars was about to become compulsory. All sorts of problems with the belts and scenarios where a seat belt could be more dangerous than no seat belt.

There are always imperfections in any safety system; a jacket may fail. It may inflate under a capsized hull, trapping you. OTOH, if you get a belt from the boom and go A over T into the 'oggin, you've got better odds with a jacket than without. Even better odds if your LJ is also a harness attached to the boat and you stay on board.

Each to his own risk assessment.

Mine is that I'm trying to make wearing my LJ as instinctive as wearing my seat belt in the car. SWMBO almost never leaves the cockpit unless the boat's attached to the ground, so she probably wears hers less than I do as I'm the one who'll be going forward, possibly in a hurry, to sort out sails, etc.

 

[Doghousekeeper]

We decided to fit 'crotch-straps' to all our lifejackets last year. However I nearly changed my mind when I read the results of the Ouzo inquiry.

Apparently the crew with crotch-straps lasted 20 hrs before they drowned but those without, only four hrs.

I know which I would prefer!

I can see where you're coming from, but personally I'd prefer to be rescued - and there's more chance of that happening in 20 hours than in 4

 

[Jamesuk]

Not at all, I wouldn't wear one if I thought they were a gimick. But it's interesting to note the research that suggests that in some situations they adjust the leaverage of the head, and their effective is questionable in impacts over something like 20 mph

Also they are no good at all if you get crushed by a truck turning left, you're more or less dead then, helmet or not!

I highlighted the key point of your discussion. If you had said ALL then we have a problem ))

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

I don't wear one, but then I don't go on deck whilst we're at sea. I find them really uncomfortable to be honest. They make my neck and shoulders ache. I have enough weight to carry with my buffers, and a lifejacket is just too much. I do wear one in the dingy though.

 

[dratsea]

Never fail to wear LJ on shore trip. At sea almost never. In days of old when knights were bold and Brittania ruled the waves: they did not teach sailors to swim 'cos if they fell off it only prolonged the agony. In the sort of conditions that I might fall off I suspect SWMBO could not get back to me (She lacks RYA qualification, but does have DOT Deck Officer Class 1, Foreign going ,deep sea, Masters, and worse still she knows I am insured!) Once out of the marina, I agree with Tradewindsailor.

 

[eidiohir]

I just told you - LJ's are already compulsory in Eire - that's abroad as far as I am concerned (& I am part Irish).

There is no enforcement and very very very few wear them unless it's different in other parts of Ireland

 

[webcraft]

I don't wear one, but then I don't go on deck whilst we're at sea. I find them really uncomfortable to be honest. They make my neck and shoulders ache. I have enough weight to carry with my buffers, and a lifejacket is just too much. I do wear one in the dingy though.

Buffers?

- W

 

[mcframe]

Motorcycle helmets are also compulsory. British people are forbidden from taking what our government see as "Risks". We are clearly not really capable of assessing risk for ourselves it seems.

Fortunately, Lifejackets are not yet compulsory here, - but they are in Ireland. It would be interesting to see statistics that showed if there was a benefit or not, (the bike crash helmets law had lots of supporting stats) but as far as I can tell, no such statistics have ever been taken.

Hmm...

I heard an interesting tale about bike helmets in the US (where in some states they are now *not* compulsory if you're over 21 and have sufficient medical insurance...) where a prominent campaigner would ride bare-headed 500 miles to demos, then don his lid for the last 1/2 mile.

Muppets would say "But you're wearing a helmet!, and we're holding a demo against the helmet laws!" - to which the answer is "lack of compulsion does not remove freedom of choice".

I wear a lifejacket in front of the kids, and when I feel it's appropriate othertimes - I sometimes wear an (illegal) pudding-bowl bike lid*, but I've never felt the need to dispense with a seatbelt in a car (or in a light aircraft for that matter).

* Yeah, I've done blatts round non-public roads without a lid, but *never* in flip-flops & shorts.

 

[Searush]

Hmm...
(snip)
* Yeah, I've done blatts round non-public roads without a lid, but *never* in flip-flops & shorts.

On one never to be forgotten blazing hot summer's day, I "blatted" along New Brighton prom on my Beezer 250 wearing only my swimming cozzie (good old Speedos). Unfortunately I hit a Bumble Bee at 50 mph (in a 30 zone). That hurt, I ended up with a third nipple for several days. Changing gear was a bit of a struggle too with bare feet, lifting the lever with the tops of my bare toes took considerable effort & care to avoid bloodshed. But it was so cool, until I stopped & then I went all red & overheated until my veins dilated again!

Oh to be young and foolish again, instead of just foolish . . .

 

[mcframe]

Next they will be telling anybody walking near the sea to wear a LJ.

Can anyone, err, fish(sic) out the Official Numbers that suggest that more people drown in submerged cars than on yachts each year?

(Yes, I'm a fan of http://www.bbc.co.uk/moreorless

 

[mcframe]

By far the most serious risk, statistically, on a sailing yacht is head injury, normally caused by the boom. Would you ever consider wearing a crash helmet while sailing? If not, why not?.

Disagree - the risk of an RTA on the way to the boat is probably higher.
(q.v. air transport)

I read that most RTAs occur within 2 miles of home - that's why I park my car & motorbikes 2.5 miles away from home... ;->

 

[mcframe]

And a final point. If, as a cyclist, you'd like car drivers to give you the most room, the best thing to wear is a blond wig

hehehe - I'm not Boris Johnson, and don't ride a pedal bike, but...

I've heard similar suggestions for motorbikes - that car driver are less likely to knock off:
(a) riders wearing yellow jackets on white-faired-bikes-with-stripes
(b) rider on choppers wearing denim cut-offs.

In both those cases, car drivers perhaps perceive that the rider might "cause trouble for them" if knocked off and take more care....

Yes, Lifejackets.

Might say hello to Snooks@LIBS tomorrow; don't think we'll be doing the trick of sending small child wearing LJ to board the boat-on-the-pontoon that we want to look at - but it's worked at SIBS before.

It's a hard-hearted salesman that can kick a cute (LJ-wearing & lifelined onto LJ-wearing father) kid off the steps ;->

 

[Moodyjim]

All that from a single troll - brilliant!

If I want to I wear it and do do my crew (if I tell em)!!

 

[Moodyjim]

All that from a single troll - brilliant!

If I want to I wear it and do do my crew (if I tell em)!!

 

[Moodyjim]

Hey, that's clever, two posts for one!

 

[mcframe]

Even if they made automatic inflatable lifejackets for small children, my son would still have a foam one like the one he has now.

I think I've mentioned that normally I wear a manual LJ when sailing with the kids; at *other* times (other peoples boats, racing, etc) I wear my auto with hood, light, day/night flare...

(We must dump #2 child in the swimming pool with LJ - they didn't mind when we asked and did it with #1; mother felt more confident afterwards)

 

[Twister_Ken]

"Reading the anti-LJ posts reminds me of when wearing seat belts in cars was about to become compulsory. All sorts of problems with the belts and scenarios where a seat belt could be more dangerous than no seat belt. "

Ah yes, I remember it well, including the seriously presented argument that it was safer to be thrown clear during a collision, than it was to be strapped into a collapsing metal box.

 

[mcframe]

On one never to be forgotten blazing hot summer's day, I "blatted" along New Brighton prom on my Beezer 250 wearing only my swimming cozzie (good old Speedos).

You are Rollie Free and I clam my Vincent Black Lightning!

Unfortunately I hit a Bumble Bee at 50 mph (in a 30 zone). That hurt, I ended up with a third nipple for several days. Changing gear was a bit of a struggle too with bare feet, lifting the lever with the tops of my bare toes took considerable effort & care to avoid bloodshed. But it was so cool, until I stopped & then I went all red & overheated until my veins dilated again!

I guess you didn't do it again
<fires up some Richard Thompson on iTunes>

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Everyone has the freedom to do what they want ..... unless the captain orders otherwise

As I say, master under god.

The crew on my boat make their own decisions on what safety gear they chose to wear as they are all adults. I do the same on other people's boats. But I sail with friends rather than with a commanding officer.