Ways to rig poled out Genoa

[johnalison]

When a squall hits with 35kts and you furl the genoa away, what do you do with the pole? With a triangulated attachment of downhauls and up haul the answer is nothing. It can sit there safely until conditions improve or until you furl the sail back out. Its a very safe way of handling a pole when conditions go a little wild unexpectedly. It's standard practise for those crossing the pond to set poles up in this way for lively down hill sailing. The last thing you need at night on a bouncing foredeck is a pole scything about uncontrollably when the boat rolls to the swell and you have furled the genoa

It is not something that would concern me. With the jib furled and the sheet tight the pole would be confined to its position at the forestay and be unable to move up and down or aft. In any case, it wouldn’t be able to drop because it has an uphaul permanently attached.

 

[geem]

It is not something that would concern me. With the jib furled and the sheet tight the pole would be confined to its position at the forestay and be unable to move up and down or aft. In any case, it wouldn’t be able to drop because it has an uphaul permanently attached.

Are you sure? I have sailed several boats and when the going gets tough that pole doesn't always behave in the way you want it to. How do you know it will end up at the jib end when the boat is rolling in big seas? It's own momentum takes over at times and it can end up banging on the cap shrouds, or lifting up wildly as the sail flogs, or wrapping around the lazy sheet. These things have happened to me in the past before we adopted the triangulated system

 

[eddystone]

Firstly my boat is only 32' and the pole is about 3.4metres long so its not going to push the clew that far out. I have to confess I've not used it in 10 years with this boat partly because the piston is seized at one end and my attempts to free it were unsuccessful, and more recently acquired a cruising chute with snuffer which I probably wouldn't try to use on my own. My motivation for wanting to use the pole (which someone else is fixing) stems from the experience of crewing in the ARC last year. Having trashed everything (disaster boat but that's another story) that could be used to rig the asymmetric and symmetric we eventually had nothing but the poled out genoa. This was rigged with whatever bits of string we could find which can be "interesting" on a 52' boat with a 6M+ pole. Relatively benign conditions - could have been another story.....

The replies so far have, I think persuaded me of the importance of being able to control even a small pole independently and understand now don't need a separate downhaul. So what I need to do is see how the pole behaves with the lift on its own and then as suggested run fore and aft guys to the cleats, probably via turning blocks on the toerail.

 

[davidmh]

I single hand on my 27 ft yacht and also on yachts up to about 38 feet and fly both a poled out genoa and a spinnaker if the weather permits, I have also raced many years ago on a class 1 45 ft yacht. I always secure the end of the pole with a triangulation of lines to make sure it will not move and I do this before trying to set the sails. I use a topping lift for the outer end of the pole. For the forward guy and downhaul i use a line from the pole end lead forward through a fore deck block and back to a cleat at the aft end of the coachroof or deck. For the after guy I have a line with a snatch block attacked to one end with a bowline, this line is clipped into the jaws of the spinnaker pole and led aft to a cleat at the aft end of the deck. The Genoa sheet is then clipped into the snatch block and its all ready to set up. Lift the pole and set the forward guy to the position you want, tighten the aft guy, the pole is now fixed. Unfurl the genoa and pull in on the genoa sheet and get it tight on the pole end. If you have been sailing with the sail on the opposite tack you just pull the genoa over to allow you to goose-wing. The block on the pole end means its easy to pull the line in and there is no chafe, also if you get a roll on the pole does not move. If you need get the sail back behind the mainsail you just release the sheet and the pole stays where it is, and you can then take it all down at you leisure or leave it there if you think you will goose-wind again before too long. You don't need winches, other than the one for the genoa sheet
Sounds complicated to write but it is easy and there is no need the rush the job. Ideal if you are single handed and the yacht is on autopilot.
David MH

 

[eddystone]

I also was thinking I would let the genoa sheets run freely through the outer jaw. There's nothing to snag on as the lift and guys would attach to rings halfway along the pole

 

[Whaup367]

It is not something that would concern me. With the jib furled and the sheet tight the pole would be confined to its position at the forestay and be unable to move up and down or aft. In any case, it wouldn’t be able to drop because it has an uphaul permanently attached.

Hi John,
Do you use the spinnaker pole as a whisker pole, please, or do you have a smaller one rigged?

I have a similar setup to yours on my boat (I think) but had thought the spinnaker pole I have was too big for the genoa.

Thanks,
W.

 

[LadyInBed]

I also was thinking I would let the genoa sheets run freely through the outer jaw. There's nothing to snag on as the lift and guys would attach to rings halfway along the pole

My whisker pole ends are quite small so they are very difficult to clip onto the 14mm sheet, hence the use of a 10mm quoit. The added advantage of using a quoit is that the pole end can't move away from the clew.
When it's rigged the pole never dips more than about 6-12", only rises when the wind builds, so I only need a downhaul. As this attaches to the deck slightly forward of the clew it forms a triangle which stops the pole swinging aft if the wind drops and the sail isn't filling.

 

[geem]

Hi John,
Do you use the spinnaker pole as a whisker pole, please, or do you have a smaller one rigged?

I have a similar setup to yours on my boat (I think) but had thought the spinnaker pole I have was too big for the genoa.

Thanks,
W.

It's an interesting point. Dead down wind sail shape isn't that important. We don't have short poles aka whisker poles. We have a pair of spinnaker poles that live on tracks on the mast. With our 135% genoa and our smaller working jib we can still pole out the sails very effectively dead down wind. We tend to set both sails flat when running down wind so they don't flap. This reduces fatigue on the sail and load on the rig as the sail doesn't fill and dump continuously.
For me longer poles are ideal as they allow the flattening of the sail

 

[capnsensible]

Generally, an extra sheet from the clew through the pole jaws back to near the stern gives a much better sheeting angle, bit like a spinnaker sheet. Run through a turning block onto the normal sheet winch and Roberts yer fathers sibling.

Have set this up on loadsa boats for short and long distances. Often with big genoas, putting a few rolls in flattens the sail and gives better boat control.

Anyway that's what ive found.

 

[johnalison]

Are you sure? I have sailed several boats and when the going gets tough that pole doesn't always behave in the way you want it to. How do you know it will end up at the jib end when the boat is rolling in big seas? It's own momentum takes over at times and it can end up banging on the cap shrouds, or lifting up wildly as the sail flogs, or wrapping around the lazy sheet. These things have happened to me in the past before we adopted the triangulated system

Maybe it differs between boats. The geometry of my boat with a 110% jib has never caused me to worry. It would be easy enough to raise the mast end to fine-adjust it.

 

[Kelpie]

I'm in the 'three lines' camp. Uphaul and fore and aft guys. On our boat, the guys are actually a single line with an eye and a carabiner near the middle. I have marked with a whipping where each guy passes through the fairlead to ensure that, with the pole level, it is at exactly 90⁰ and not hitting the rigging.
It works really well. You can set everything up in advance and leave the pole pointing forwards. With the fore guy at its marked position you can swing the pole out knowing that it will land in the right place and not hit the shroud. Then tighten up the aft guy and you're done.

If I need to go hard on the wind on the same tack as the pole, sometimes I just bring the lazy sheet across to the working side, and furl away a bit, then I can leave the pole in position with the sheet still through it. Needs a bit of farting about with a rolling hitch to free up the car and winch, but still much less work, and safer, than taking the pole down- especially if you know you're going to need it again soon.

 

[Poignard]

When I crossed the Atlantic, in someone else's boat, we set two genoas.

One was poled out using the spinnaker pole, and the other was poled out using the main boom.

It worked well.

 

[[70521]]

I was watching a YouTube video and saw a boat using a 'Blue Water Runner' looks impressive and no poles.

 

[andsarkit]

The old twizzle rig Twizzle

 

[Poignard]

I was watching a YouTube video and saw a boat using a 'Blue Water Runner' looks impressive and no poles.

Looks similar to the Twistle rig.

 

[Poignard]

Looks similar to the Twistle rig.

Beaten to it by Andsarkit!

 

[GHA]

Another vote for up/forward/back. Lines spliced up so takes moments to deploy. Great for launching the dinghy too!
Usually soft shackle a snatch block to the pole & run the sheet through that, no chafe.

 

[Kelpie]

I've been wondering about running the sheet through a snatch block hauled out to the pole end. Would make it much easier to get the sheet back if you need to harden up. And no chafe on the sheet. Any downsides?

 

[GHA]

I've been wondering about running the sheet through a snatch block hauled out to the pole end. Would make it much easier to get the sheet back if you need to harden up. And no chafe on the sheet. Any downsides?

Ah, that´s a good idea, have the snatch block on a line so you can position it along the pole. That´s what happens with the halyard to pick up the dinghy in the gif above. Can´t think of any downsides.
Must have done weeks in the trades before with pole out one side & main the other. Similar, topping lift/preventer/sheet locks the boom in place.

 

[dunedin]

I've been wondering about running the sheet through a snatch block hauled out to the pole end. Would make it much easier to get the sheet back if you need to harden up. And no chafe on the sheet. Any downsides?

By far the best option is to use a separate sheet for running through the pole. Apart from anything else, for running generally want the sheet to come from pole to near the stern (typically using spinnaker sheet blocks) as the usual sheeting position is too far inboard and forward.