Volvo KAMD 300 - are high hours a concern?

[RobV]

Hi all. Appreciate this has probably been asked multiple times.
I have my eye on a boat with a pair of KAMD 300 with 1500 hours. I'll be speaking to the broker tomorrow so no details on service history yet.
If they have been serviced properly including valve adjustments etc. Do I have anything to be concerned about. At those hours should I be budgeting for a few big bills, turbo, supercharger replacement.
Thanks in advance.

 

[kashurst]

If it has been looked after properly it should be in good condition. Lots of hours implies regular use. It's lack of use that knackers engines. If it has been used mostly on a river that can lead to problems with oil starvation in the valve gear and bunged up cooling system. All fixable but needs checking out properly.
The core KAMD engine is very good, but the turbos are made of cheese. If they haven't been replaced already, they probably will need it sooner or later. On the plus side as marine turbos go they are @ £800 each.

I would want to see lots of paper based evidence for servicing etc before moving ahead.
I would also assume if I bought this boat ,I would be doing a full cooling system strip and clean, a very thorough service, valve adjustments, new seals in the raw water pumps and budget for a pair of turbos in the future.

 

[volvopaul]

Hi all. Appreciate this has probably been asked multiple times.
I have my eye on a boat with a pair of KAMD 300 with 1500 hours. I'll be speaking to the broker tomorrow so no details on service history yet.
If they have been serviced properly including valve adjustments etc. Do I have anything to be concerned about. At those hours should I be budgeting for a few big bills, turbo, supercharger replacement.
Thanks in advance.

No problem , just be keen on the service history especially the valve service schedule.

 

[Momac]

Presumably the condition of the valve gear could be covered by an engineers inspection .
Is it not likely that most kamd /kad engines are going to be showing over 1000 engine hours due to their age.

Having the experienced the expense of refurbishing a turbo on a kad32 (done by volvopaul) which was probably attributable to very light of use by the boats original owner I would say low hours has some merits but is no guarantee of absence of potential for faults .

 

[jrudge]

just beat in mind the market punishes high hours boats on resale. 1500 now will be 2000 when you sell it.

 

[Megs20Burt!]

just beat in mind the market punishes high hours boats on resale. 1500 now will be 2000 when you sell it.

That’s a fact. When we bought our boat back in the summer (2006 with 329 hrs on the engines), the broker told us the same thing. If our boat had 600 hrs + when for sale, we would have paid a good bit less.

imagine being punished for using your boat regularly, yet properly...?

 

[BruceK]

What gets me is the mindset that 1000 hours is broken or nearly time. A diesel engine being best before 1000 hrs? Who makes that kind of diagnosis? I'd expect a diesel to run to at minimum 4000 hrs. If you bought a 2nd hand car at 10 years old with 40 -60 000 on the clock you'd think you'd done well for yourself

 

[Momac]

Do people restrict journeys using their boats because they are concerned about depreciation due to hours on the hour counter ?

 

[BruceK]

Do people restrict journeys using their boats because they are concerned about depreciation due to hours on the hour counter ?

The sad ones seem to

 

[Momac]

I've put almost 600 engine hours on my boat and have large file of receipts for service items etc - oh dear what have I done !

 

[Momac]

What gets me is the mindset that 1000 hours is broken or nearly time.

I would say 1000 hours is just about run in.
But don't tell anyone.

 

[alt]

High hours wouldn't concern me, but there is a caveat... I have 800 hours on mine now (I have put up 500 hours in 8 years). I wouldn't hesitate buying another boat with 800 hours, PROVIDED it had the same service history. That means, receipts for EVERYTHING, proof of regular maintenance etc.

I even keep receipts for small things like polish / cleaning products etc. (even have receipt for the wiper!) - It shows not missing out on 'all round' maintenance, showing an over-all care (dare I say, love?!) for the whole boat.

Is 800 hours high? Is 1500 hours high? (op) - Who gets to decide?!

 

[volvopaul]

One of the worst shocks I’ve ever had with one of these engines was a series of worn out pushrods and ball stud adjusters , this was on a river used broom 38 , I think they only used this engine in one build , using it at river speed the oil flow to the upper part of the engine was that poor the parts rusted and wore out due to the lack of oil being pumped .
So better buy one that’s used in anger .

 

[Momac]

One of the worst shocks I’ve ever had with one of these engines was a series of worn out pushrods and ball stud adjusters , this was on a river used broom 38 , I think they only used this engine in one build , using it at river speed the oil flow to the upper part of the engine was that poor the parts rusted and wore out due to the lack of oil being pumped .
So better buy one that’s used in anger .

Do I recall correctly there is some modification that can be made to improve the oil flow to the valve rockers at low engine speed?

 

[volvopaul]

Do I recall correctly there is some modification that can be made to improve the oil flow to the valve rockers at low engine speed?

Not really not official ones from Volvo

 

[BruceK]

One of the worst shocks I’ve ever had with one of these engines was a series of worn out pushrods and ball stud adjusters , this was on a river used broom 38 , I think they only used this engine in one build , using it at river speed the oil flow to the upper part of the engine was that poor the parts rusted and wore out due to the lack of oil being pumped .
So better buy one that’s used in anger .

Absolutely not disputing this but curious on why this should be as even at idle the oil pressure is more than enough to fully circulate the engine. Can you shed some more light on this? Where is the choke point?

 

[Greg2]

Absolutely not disputing this but curious on why this should be as even at idle the oil pressure is more than enough to fully circulate the engine. Can you shed some more light on this? Where is the choke point?

Paul can obviously comment far more authoritatively than I can but this issue with the KAD / KAMD 44 and 300 has been talked about for years and has popped up on here in discussions at various points. If memory serves, a firm on the Thames came up with a mod that improved oil flow to the top of the engine at low RPM but as Paul says, no formal VP mods.

Based upon this we have always discounted boats with these engines as we do slow inland cruising as well as faster coastal stuff. Never understood why Brooms did one or two 38CLs with these engines given that they designed the 38 specifically with our sort of cruising in mind.

 

[BruceK]

Talked about for years could just be internet lore. The amount of BS on forums touted as truth could fill more than one owners handbook. But I am really curious because the oil pressure is there to do the job and this would be a monumental design flaw that surely would have been addressed in the several iterations the series went through. I could imagine Volvo being presented with enough claims to at least make mention in the owners manual that prolonged displacement cruising would invalidate warranty etc this being the case. It's not as if the every 200 hr tappet clearance check wouldn't highlight this short coming either. Especially if the bloody things were rusting up and peening.

 

[Greg2]

Talked about for years could just be internet lore. The amount of BS on forums touted as truth could fill more than one owners handbook. But I am really curious because the oil pressure is there to do the job and this would be a monumental design flaw that surely would have been addressed in the several iterations the series went through. I could imagine Volvo being presented with enough claims to at least make mention in the owners manual that prolonged displacement cruising would invalidate warranty etc this being the case. It's not as if the every 200 hr tappet clearance check wouldn't highlight this short coming either. Especially if the bloody things were rusting up and peening.

Talked about over the years by experienced boaters and details of the ‘fix’ shared and of course illustrated by Paul’s example Bruce. As I understand it the complexity of the top end of the 44 and 300 was a factor. Only passing on my understanding and not arguing the case - absolutely fine by me if you are dubious.
.

 

[volvopaul]

Absolutely not disputing this but curious on why this should be as even at idle the oil pressure is more than enough to fully circulate the engine. Can you shed some more light on this? Where is the choke point?

More fancy metal bits under the valve cover than your engine but in effect the same rocker shaft set up , the bridge post and cross over not in the lube spray range so it suffered unless your revving it at bit off idle speed , that’s where the trouble started .