USB Oscilloscope?

[Ian_Edwards]

In the 1970's I drove an oscilloscope for a living for many years, R&D sonar equipment.

I now have a couple of projects in mind which would be much easier if I had 'scope.

I've been looking at USB oscilloscopes, it doesn't need to be mega fast, but it would be great if it could look at transients, specifically the sort of things you get when switching heavy 12 volt DC loads, and I'd like to look at CAN BUS signals, and perhaps decode them.

From my internet trawl, I can see quite few which would do, but there seems to be problem running them on windows 10, a lot say they are only compatible up to windows 7. It seems to be a problem with unsigned drives, and there are workarounds, but I'd prefer one which works with Windows 10 (64bit).

Can anyone recommend a not too expensive, USB oscilloscope which is windows 10 compatible?

 

[GHA]

Not quite but these are great, if not pennies, so much easier than booting up the laptop. Great to looking at NEA0183 to see how clean it is or if it's there, and checking for noise -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SainSmart-...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=QDTR78R22QGEEMJFE66E

I also have a hantek similar to this one which rarely gets usd but works well >
(Hmm, don't think I've actually tried on the win10 laptop....)

https://www.banggood.com/Hantek-602...rAStdjOkmYlYFTRoCKZ0QAvD_BwE&cur_warehouse=CN

 

[lw395]

What is 'not too expensive'?
I have a Sainsmart DSO203, handheld lcd scope, usb etc. About £100 on ebay?
That's 4 channels, 40MHz IIRC. there are cheaper slower versions with less channels.
I've had mine since before W10. I do not know if its W10 compatible, TBH, mostly use it stand alone.
I also have a couple of old analogue scopes, you an get some bargains these days.

I've played with various USB only scopes, it seems a faff compared to a separate box.
OTOH, soundcard scopes can be quite handy sometimes.

If I wanted to play with canbus, I'd consider using an Arduino to decode?

Scopes are one of those things that you will always want better/faster one day.
Maybe you either spend as much as you dare or as little as meets your immediate needs?

 

[lpdsn]

and I'd like to look at CAN BUS signals, and perhaps decode them.

Much easier said than done. I can get the N2K PGNs in Hex from my multiplexer, but I have never bothered going any further than identifying the presence or frequency of occurrence of a particular PGN. Would be a lot of work to interpret the data from an oscilliscope.

 

[pagoda]

What is 'not too expensive'?
I have a Sainsmart DSO203, handheld lcd scope, usb etc. About £100 on ebay?
That's 4 channels, 40MHz IIRC. there are cheaper slower versions with less channels.
I've had mine since before W10. I do not know if its W10 compatible, TBH, mostly use it stand alone.
I also have a couple of old analogue scopes, you an get some bargains these days.

I've played with various USB only scopes, it seems a faff compared to a separate box.
OTOH, soundcard scopes can be quite handy sometimes.

If I wanted to play with canbus, I'd consider using an Arduino to decode?

Scopes are one of those things that you will always want better/faster one day.
Maybe you either spend as much as you dare or as little as meets your immediate needs?

The DS203 can display NMEA/CANBUS raw signals using 2 channels quite easily ( and B&G Fastnet as well) However no Scope is useful for decoding CANBUS/NMEA2000. You might be able to prove one side of the signal is faulty or shorted... but no decodes.
Arduino with an appropriate CAN transceiver and code libraries can be used to decode some CANBUS traffic (Incl NMEA 2K traffic) 250KBaud and 500KBaud are feasible , 1MBaud with a lot of traffic is almost outwith Arduino (even the ARM Cortex versions). None of it is really straightforward. Using an Actisense device to sniff bus traffic is much simpler for NMEA systems.

 

[Martin_J]

As others have said... It's much easier with a standalone unit.

I also have the DSO203... If you get one, get the official one from Sainsmart. It's in a metal case and the probes are good quality.

As to what you want to use it for, it does have a function to start on a configured trigger so easy to capture what happens at a switch on. Well, it worked for me when building simple oscillating circuits and wanting to see how the oscillation starts and builds.

 

[GHA]

The DS203 can display NMEA/CANBUS raw signals using 2 channels quite easily ( and B&G Fastnet as well) However no Scope is useful for decoding CANBUS/NMEA2000. You might be able to prove one side of the signal is faulty or shorted... but no decodes.
Arduino with an appropriate CAN transceiver and code libraries can be used to decode some CANBUS traffic (Incl NMEA 2K traffic) 250KBaud and 500KBaud are feasible , 1MBaud with a lot of traffic is almost outwith Arduino (even the ARM Cortex versions). None of it is really straightforward. Using an Actisense device to sniff bus traffic is much simpler for NMEA systems.

Would an esp32 be an option to get a CanBus data?

http://www.iotsharing.com/2017/09/how-to-use-arduino-esp32-can-interface.html

 

[lpdsn]

Would an esp32 be an option to get a CanBus data?

http://www.iotsharing.com/2017/09/how-to-use-arduino-esp32-can-interface.html

If you want to get the contents of an N2K PGN you need to know the encoding (i.e. buy or steal the spec) or buy a bit of kit that will decode it for you from those who have officially bought the spec.

I always find it amusing that OMA (Open Mobile Alliance) were reputed to have more lawyers than techies working on standards to try to avoid being labelled as a cartel but NMEA just breeze through.

 

[GHA]

If you want to get the contents of an N2K PGN you need to know the encoding (i.e. buy or steal the spec) or buy a bit of kit that will decode it for you from those who have officially bought the spec.

I always find it amusing that OMA (Open Mobile Alliance) were reputed to have more lawyers than techies working on standards to try to avoid being labelled as a cartel but NMEA just breeze through.

Hasn't a lot of it been sniffed already?

https://github.com/canboat/canboat

 

[cpedw]

For £15 the D P scope is hard to fault http://www.picaxe.com/Hardware/Add-on-Modules/PCB-scope/
Only 300kHz but 2 channels and 4 channel logic analyser.
I just noticed it doesn't claim to work on Win 10

 

[lw395]

AIUI, there are various Arduino scope programs around, so you could implement something for under a tenner.
Not sure they'd be better than a soundcard, apart from going down to DC, and not risking blowing up your sound card?

 

[nimbusgb]

If you want a proper piece of kit look at the DS1000E from Rigol. Under £300

We have bought one of the 1054Z's for each of our techies benches they are incredibly capable and versatile.

 

[ianj99]

Take a look at the Picoscope 2204a. Its 2channel and has a waveform generator which can be very useful.
The Serial Decoding is great - see attached list and for £119 its the best value usb scope on sale. (imho)
The software is a free download and works in demo mode so you can check out the features before buying the hardware.

RS also stock Microchip's USB Can Bus Analyser. You piggy back onto your Seatalk NG or N2K bus and then you can
view the data in real time. (selectable baud rate and 11 or 29bit can data format) You can also transmit data to the can bus.
Its useful for snooping the data from existing devices on the bus to see what's going on.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-oscilloscopes/7933654/

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/interface-development-kits/7154255/

https://www.picotech.com/downloads

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Thanks for the input, especially to ianj99, for the very useful links.

I'll resume my search in the New Year when I have more time, but I've already downloaded the manuals for the Picoscope 2000, and already seen an obvious glitch. The headline, says windows 10, 32 and 64 bit compatible, but the user manual for the PC software says windows XP (SP3). So that leave open the question, is it truly compatible with windows 10? Or is that the manual hasn't been updated?

 

[ianj99]

Thanks for the input, especially to ianj99, for the very useful links.

I'll resume my search in the New Year when I have more time, but I've already downloaded the manuals for the Picoscope 2000, and already seen an obvious glitch. The headline, says windows 10, 32 and 64 bit compatible, but the user manual for the PC software says windows XP (SP3). So that leave open the question, is it truly compatible with windows 10? Or is that the manual hasn't been updated?

Used it on XP, Vista, 7, 32 & 64bit, and 10 (64bit), which was where the screenshot of serial decoding formats was taken. You can also run more than one instance which avoided the need for me to upgrade to a 4channel model when I needed more channels. I just bought a second 2204a.
The software is updated on a regular basis when new features are available, and rarely due to a bug (never found one myself in 12years.)
The decoded serial data can be viewed as hex, decimal & ASCII which was very handy when I was tinkering with a diy NMEA0183 device (paddle wheel 5Hz log to Nmea interface)
The Arbitrary Waveform Generator can also be an asset - for example you could capture a serial datastream and then paste it into the AWM so it can be replayed repetitively at whatever rate you want.

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Thanks, ianj99, obviously they've not updated the manual then.

I'll order one in the next week or so, and then set to work sorting out the Empir Bus on the boat.

 

[ianj99]

There's a help menu on the toolbar that has all you'll need to know.
Ian

(did you download Picoscope, & not Picolog?)

 

[Ian_Edwards]

I downloaded:
picoscope-6 -users-guide.pdf
picoscope-2000-series-data-sheet-en.pdf
picoscope-2000-series-programmers-guide.pdf
picoscope-2000-series-quick-start-guide.pdf

Not had time to look at them in any detail, currently cooking turkey curry for the family tonight .... the last of the Turkey

Is that what I should be looking at?

if not what should I be looking at?

 

[ianj99]

Those are correct, but I think you were confused by the footnote on page 11:-

Operating system
Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10*. 32 bit and 64 bit versions.
Beta software is also available for Linux and OS X operating systems.

Footnote: * PicoScope version 6.12 and SDKs are compatible with Windows XP SP3 and Vista
SP2 in addition to the Windows versions listed above. For best performance we
recommend Windows 7 or later.
Current stable version is 6.12.9 although I am still on an earlier version on both my W7 pc, and W10 laptop.

You'll soon get the hang of it even without the user guide although some features are reserved for more powerful scopes.

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Thanks for your help and prompt replies.