Twin Keels

[becq]

I viewed a Twin Keel 23 footer today. Generally it was in good shape, but has been raced in the past. However, I did notice that the bolted on keels seemed to be splayed at slightly different angles to the hull, the starboard keel set at a slightly wider angle than the port keel. The boat was antifouled, so could not see if hull joints were damaged at all. I was wondering if this might be a common moulding imperfection for twin keelers when built, or whether this could have been caused from grounding or drying out over time. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[pvb]

Walk away!

 

[actionoptics]

I have had a number of twin keelers and there are very many in the sailing club as all the berths dry.
Some are over 30 years old and some are almost new. I have never seen one with uneven keels.
As pvb advises, walk away. There are lots of boats on the market.

 

[VicS]

You dont know if the hull has been damaged and badly repaired or if the keel bolts/ studs are "merely" bent

Unless you are prepared for major work and expense walk away

 

[Robin]

Isn't there one design bout that size that had splayed twin keels for performance reasons? Hunter(?) If not so run not walk away.

 

[becq]

Yes it was a Hunter, one keel was splayed slightly wider than the other, I almost did not notice until I stepped back to look from a distance, but definitely there. As VicS mentions possibly bent keel studs/bolts. I guess this is not an easy fix, and I will keep looking. Thanks for the replies.

 

[Robin]

Yes it was a Hunter, one keel was splayed slightly wider than the other, I almost did not notice until I stepped back to look from a distance, but definitely there. As VicS mentions possibly bent keel studs/bolts. I guess this is not an easy fix, and I will keep looking. Thanks for the replies.

In which case you may be seeing 'normal' and worrying about it unnecessarily.

 

[becq]

In which case you may be seeing 'normal' and worrying about it unnecessarily.

You think they might have been built with differing angles on each side of the hull? How would that help performance, and is there any further info on this?

 

[RichardS]

Isn't there one design bout that size that had splayed twin keels for performance reasons? Hunter(?) If not so run not walk away.

Having splayed keels is not the same thing as having keels splayed at different angles though.

There can't be any performance justification for that.

Richard

 

[ghostlymoron]

A lot of keels have a 2° toe in to increase lift as well as the normal splay. Some cheaper twin keelers have vertical keels to make moulding easier but the performance is impaired. As already said, anything unsymmetrical spells trouble and expense.

 

[peteK]

What type of boat ?

 

[Robin]

You think they might have been built with differing angles on each side of the hull? How would that help performance, and is there any further info on this?

Sorry, becq, I gave up on small bilge keelerss over 40 years ago and am a devout fan of deep fin( but now have a winged keel) but I'm sure I do remember one smallish boat design was built thus and that there was a proven benefit. Somebody else will have to chip in with the details, I did well at my age and after a stroke to even remember that it might be a Hunter! I do remember scratching my head hard back then about how it worked, but also remember one such doing well locally in my then Yacht Club's races in Poole. I had boats with bilge plates back then because I could only get and afford a drying mooring, once I got me a deep water one, shallow draught became less of a priority and I moved onwards and upwards not to mention better upwind. Nowadays we sail in very 'skinny' waters off the USA south east coast, Bahamas and ICW where deep draught does not work too well, so we have a 36 footer with a 5ft draught 'wing' keel. BTW I couldn't tell you how wing keels give improved upwind and heavy weather performance either but they do.. ..

 

[Robin]

Having splayed keels is not the same thing as having keels splayed at different angles though.

There can't be any performance justification for that.

Richard

I thought the same about twin hulls too!

 

[becq]

Thanks for all the replies. I have searched the net for any further info, there is plenty of info on Hunter 23 high aspect ratio twin keels etc, but not on differing keel angles. I have decided to move on and look for something else..

 

[Seajet]

How old was that boat ?

With ANY boat which was around before the October 1987 Hurricane, especially around the South Coast, a special look is required.

After the carnage of the storm / hurricane - hundreds of boats ashore and afloat wrecked in Chichester harbour alone - many tiny ' GRP Repair ' 1-2 man band stye companies sprang up ( of course many were very good from results I saw, I was lucky my boats weren't damaged ) BUT one heard a few tales of keels put back on at ' not quite the right angle '...

 

[maby]

We used to have a Hunter Ranger and I'm reasonably sure that the keels are a single moulding rather than two separate keels bolted on. It would take significant force to distort the angle of one of them, I think.

 

[Ceirwan]

Either walk away or take up the services of a surveyor. Preferably one who has knowledge from previously surveying that design of boat.

 

[Seajet]

We used to have a Hunter Ranger and I'm reasonably sure that the keels are a single moulding rather than two separate keels bolted on. It would take significant force to distort the angle of one of them, I think.

maby,

I don't know the Ranger that well but most ' modern ' twin keelers have bolt on keels, as moulded ones would be very difficult to get out of the mould; hence moderately older grp twin keelers like the Sea Wytch having vertical keels, for production rather than hydrodynamic reasons.

As for ' significant force ', in the '87 hurricane I saw quite a few large - 30' + boats driven so hard onto even soft mud that keels were ripped off, and whole rows of 30-40' + boats ashore knocked over in domino effect with whole sides taken out, these sort of scenes were sadly very common.

 

[Robin]

Hunter horizon info here http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/hunter-horizon-23/hunter-horizon-23.htm