capnsensible
Well-known member
Blimey aren't you dizzy? Or was the other poster right about you never getting anywhere? ??
To stand on, or not to stand on
- Thread starter sails_02
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john_morris_uk
Well-known member
Yes and it’s a stupid ditty. Whilst IRPCS require you to stand on, IRPCS also require you to take avoiding action when it’s obvious the other vessel isn’t complying etc. Hence Captain O’Day was both stupid and wrong to continue standing on...
Why do people think they’re being helpful when they believe they’re ‘keeping out of the way of everything’ by altering course for everything in sight? Obeying the IRPCS doesn’t mean playing chicken with large ships; it means being predicable and means you’re actually less of a worry to the OOW of a large vessel.
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john_morris_uk
Well-known member
I’m fascinated to know how on earth you know that a ship appearing over the horizon is worthy of your ‘I’ll just keep out of his way’ antics.
99% of ships I see when crossing the channel or in other open water situations never come near me. Assessing which are the ones to watch is a skill that’s aided enormously by AIS. Even the ones that look ‘interesting’ are often found to have a CPA of a mile or so.
in forty years of sailing in the channel and all around the world there have only been a slack handful of times when a ship has been a genuine danger and made me take avoiding action when I was stand on vessel. I don’t get hung up about it, but i shrug my shoulders and carry on. I certainly don’t make YouTube videos about it or even complain. There’s one exception where I had to fill in a report but I’ve told that tale before.
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billskip
Well-known member
Catalina36
N/A
Based there, sailed much of the Channel, Portugal, Turkey. Do you ever give up on cheap jibes and just stick to the topic?
Catalina36
N/A
You don't seem to be disagreeing with me. I've crossed the Channel many times and I avoid shipping much as you describe, most of it never comes near me and sometimes slowing down is all that's needed. My point is that there is never a need to put yourself into a situation where you're now the stand-on vessel and you're relying on a ship to avoid you. Just keep out of their way, it really isn't difficult.
john_morris_uk
Well-known member
I beg to differ. The ship that appears out of the murk a few miles away or comes over the horizon is in sight. IRPCS applies to all vessels in sight of each other. How do you choose which ship that you can see to take action to ‘keep out of the way of’ and avoid being stand on vessel?
A ship that you can see will almost certainly have clocked you on radar (or for many of us nowadays) via AIS transponder by the time you see it and think ‘I’ll avoid being stand on for. The OOW will almost certainly have decided whether you’re stand on or not when you were miles away. Your alteration for no apparent reason (many of them do understand sailing) leaves him/her with another imponderable. What are you going to do next? There’s a strong chance the OOW had already altered course by a few degrees to ensure a safe CPA.
Claiming to never allow yourself to be stand on vessel to a larger one is complete nonsense IMHO.
I assume your track across the channel must look very odd with regular strange deviations of course. No wonder us sailors get called WAFI’s
Babylon
Well-known member
To the enormously useful adage "Don't embarrass the other guy" (in Paul Boissier's book Understanding the Rule of the Road, 2003) could be added the advice "Don't embarrass yourself"...
john_morris_uk
Well-known member
Quite. Paul Boissier was my CO once and I counted him as a good friend. One of the pictures we have in our hall of our current yacht was taken by his wife as we sailed into the anchorage off Houat to meet up.
PS. He also let me drive his ship... even when RASing.
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38mess
Well-known member
In this part of the world it's John O'Day. Stop being so silly ?John O'Day or his brother, Michael?
Richard
Stemar
Well-known member
It's quite safe to pass ahead of a stream of ships on a yacht if you are practiced.
Sometimes. Here's a guy who thought the same thing
Of course, he wasn't stand on vessel, and there was little, if anything, the tanker could have done but I'm quite keen on not ending up in the same place, whatever the rights and wrongs.
I've seen nothing to change my opinion that, while giving a bully a bloody nose is generally a good policy, it tends not to work very well when the bully weighs 25,000 tonnes and you weigh 5. If I see a potential close quarters situation developing, I'll make an early and clear change of course to pass behind. For one thing, I'm playing, he's working. Turning early means colregs don't come into it.
Sometimes. Here's a guy who thought the same thing
Of course, he wasn't stand on vessel, and there was little, if anything, the tanker could have done but I'm quite keen on not ending up in the same place, whatever the rights and wrongs.
I've seen nothing to change my opinion that, while giving a bully a bloody nose is generally a good policy, it tends not to work very well when the bully weighs 25,000 tonnes and you weigh 5. If I see a potential close quarters situation developing, I'll make an early and clear change of course to pass behind. For one thing, I'm playing, he's working. Turning early means colregs don't come into it.
Catalina36
N/A
Those poor blokes on Ouzo may have had a similar approach to life. "He can see us, he knows what he's doing, he'll go round us".
PilotWolf
Well-known member
I don't remember but was this in the channel so the tanker probably had nowhere to go anyway. Plus this would have been a perfect example of moving from one conflicting situ.ation to another
W.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Do you sail on your own a lot?
capnsensible
Well-known member
Indeed that is one person. Videos of yachts passing safely in front of ships probably don't exist. But if they did there would be many thousands of them. I could have made hundreds myself.
The point is, it's entirely possible to learn how to apply IRPCS as they were written to avoid collisions in a crossing situation. Especially in congested sea ways. It's not difficult, but it does require practice. Listening to the pro big ship operators on here would help.
capnsensible
Well-known member
It was indeed in a narrow channel off Cowes. There is no excuse for the skipper of the racing yacht and it was fortunate there were no casualties. He was duly spanked. But this is an extremely rare exception.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Equally, they may not have. Pointless speculating as no one will ever know.
laika
Well-known member
Have you done it in the AIS era and paid attention to the course of ships you identify as potential issues from a long way away? AIS was an eye-opener for me after relying on hand bearing compasses. No-way you can visually notice that they've tweaked their course 2 degrees to avoid you. Your lack of issue crossing the channel which you've attributed to your speed variations is likely despite rather than because of those variations.
john_morris_uk
Well-known member
What they thought is pure speculation.
What should happen if you get into close quarters is that all vessels have an obligation to avoid collision. Something obviously went tragically wrong for the Ouzo and her crew.
Which hasn't got a lot to do with the 'I'll just keep out of everyone's way' silliness and abrogation of responsibility of being in command of a vessel at sea.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Remembering my days on dirty British coaster one of the summer hands a retired brigadier was always ready at the change of watch,especially early in the morning to give me a complete and concise assessment of our situation pointing out ships and fishing boats and yachts criss crossing hither and thither, after a cup of tea it was found after the brigadier had turned in that the scene had changed and throughout the 3 hour watch no avoiding action had been needed,much to the fears of the brigadier.