Tips on towing boat on trailer

[bluemoongaffer]

I have. Towing a Vauxhall Viva on a substantial four-wheeled car trailer behind a TR7 (not a good choice and would be illegal now).
The trailer started swaying and, as Searush said, slowing made it worse, so I accelerated slowly.
I had some friends who engaged in caravan stage rallying who reckoned that accelerating was the thing to do.
Wrong. The swaying is a resonance. The heavier outfit I was towing just took over the plot until I could see we were in trouble with the trailer appearing at one side and then the other.
I was on a very quiet dual carriageway (it was a Sunday morning) so decided to brake hard when the trailer came across to the offside and hope the whole lot would slither to a jack-knife sort of halt.
It kind of did that although the whole outfit spun and we ended up facing the way we had come from.
I managed to do a multi-point turn and we carried on.

Since then I regard any swaying as an early warning of doom and slow very gently until things settle down.

TR7 and Vauxhall Viva. Those were the days. I digress. We had a TR8 once, USA spec. Very like driving a speedboat - all grunt and plenty of wallowing around

 

[Csail]

Check everything, we got pulled on the m4 and they checked everything and weighed us.Carry your docs....it made it a lot easier.Only thing we got a warning for was no brake lanyard.Also remember towing speed.

 

[simon barefoot]

I would definately go along with hiring a van for the day. Ideally a transit flatbed or tipper. Loads of room for all the stuff, and with the low back, great visibility. Makes reversing a doddle. And if it does get a bit awkward, its not your clutch!!!

 

[ProDave]

I would definately go along with hiring a van for the day. Ideally a transit flatbed or tipper. Loads of room for all the stuff, and with the low back, great visibility. Makes reversing a doddle. And if it does get a bit awkward, its not your clutch!!!

I wouldn't recommend a flatbed, at least not empty. There won't be enough weight on the rear driving wheels. You could get in big trouble on a slipway with not enough grip. If you are going to hire a vehicle, I suggest a Land Rover.

A 4*4 is what's needed for that sort of weight. I tow with a Subaru Forrester, but that's only a baby 4*4 and would be at or beyond it's limit with a 2 ton boat, but is fine for my little boat.

Apart from anything else a 4*4 usually has a low ratio gearbox, which means a lot less clutch slipping when reversing.

Another "before you start" check point is adjust the mirrors. The view you get solo is probably not ideal for towing. I normally angle mine down a little so they see under the widest part of the boat and out a little, I can also see the trailer wheels like that so you can see if you are cutting corners to fine etc.

 

[ghostlymoron]

If you have 'stops' at the front of the keel runners and the boat is not fully up to them, the boat can be repositioned by towing forward and braking suddenly. The momentum will bring the boat up to the stops. You can then strap it down securely making sure it cannot move fore and aft. Obviously care and experimentation are required if you don't want the mast sticking through your rear window!
I don't go along with the Searush advice to speed up if you get snaking - the only safe way is to slow down. Agree that the 'bow wave' effect of lorries is something to watch out for.

 

[Lakesailor]

I use this fine adjustment technique. With a bilge keeler, particularly, there is a bit of difference between a dry boat and one you have just recovered. The wet boats move much more easily!

 

[Searush]

I have. Towing a Vauxhall Viva on a substantial four-wheeled car trailer behind a TR7 (not a good choice and would be illegal now).
The trailer started swaying and, as Searush said, slowing made it worse, so I accelerated slowly.
I had some friends who engaged in caravan stage rallying who reckoned that accelerating was the thing to do.
Wrong. The swaying is a resonance. The heavier outfit I was towing just took over the plot until I could see we were in trouble with the trailer appearing at one side and then the other.
I was on a very quiet dual carriageway (it was a Sunday morning) so decided to brake hard when the trailer came across to the offside and hope the whole lot would slither to a jack-knife sort of halt.
It kind of did that although the whole outfit spun and we ended up facing the way we had come from.
I managed to do a multi-point turn and we carried on.

Since then I regard any swaying as an early warning of doom and slow very gently until things settle down.

Hmm, thinking about it I never had any snaking with the boat, only with a poorly loaded caravan. I think the weight of the trailer relative to the tow car is critical.

So with a heavy, powerful car & lightish caravan, acceleration will stop the snaking as the car takes control of the rig. If the trailer & load is at all close to the tow car weight there is little chance for the acceleration to be enough to take control & positive feedback could take over. Thanks for the comment.

 

[Lakesailor]

I have a friend with a steam boat which is a very heavy load. He uses a landrover to bring it from Wirral.
One year he had a fright with the boat being nearly untowable. When he got out to check the problem (he was fearing a puncture or broken rear chassis) he found he hadn't connected his anti-snake damper.

 

[maxi77]

If you have 'stops' at the front of the keel runners and the boat is not fully up to them, the boat can be repositioned by towing forward and braking suddenly. The momentum will bring the boat up to the stops. You can then strap it down securely making sure it cannot move fore and aft. Obviously care and experimentation are required if you don't want the mast sticking through your rear window!
I don't go along with the Searush advice to speed up if you get snaking - the only safe way is to slow down. Agree that the 'bow wave' effect of lorries is something to watch out for.

I must admit that having a ton or more of boat sliding uncontrolled on the trailer does not seem that good an idea.

I used to used one of the ratchet straps used to secure the boat to the trailer to slide it up and down to adust the ballance. Mu ch more control and safe, and you can do it singlehanded.

If you indulge in long distance trips another handy thing is a hitchlock that prevents the trailer being removed from the tow ball. There are plenty of recorded incidents where trailers and caravans disapear in minutes from motorway service stations. The you can have a pee and a coffee in comfort

 

[RobF]

Trying to find a 4x4 that you can hire with a towbar is pretty challenging in my experience. Best I've found is a transit or a flat bed with a towbar (from a van hire place). I take the point about there being a lack of weight over the rear wheels with these vehicles, but there's probably more weight than what you would have over the rear wheels of most cars (and most 4x4).

Strongly disagree about trying to accelerate out of a snake. Would recommend easing off the accelerator and slowing down gently. Most of trailering (imho) is to drive as if you had a barrel of nitro-glycerine on board (as smooth and gentle as you can). Don't forget to take corners wide to avoid clipping them.

 

[Avocet]

I've done a fair bit of boat towing in the past (with a variety of tow vehicles - some more suitable than others)! First of all, as has already been said, check the weight yourself. You say 2 tons but boats are notorious for putting on weight over the course of their lives! I'd recommend taking the whole lot to a scrapyard and asking to go on their weighbridge. They'll usually oblige for a few quid.

I can heartily recommend those various anti-snake devices. Our Evolution 22 was an absolute pig to tow, and I gave myself a few frights - it could even "wag" a Landrover! The anti-snake bar cured all that very effectively. I haven't found accelerating out of a snake helps and to be honest, with 2.5 tons of boat plus trailer on the back you won't be doing much accelerating out of anything!

If your car was built after 1996, the tow bar will need to be type approved. Look for an "e" mark on it. If you have a "Certificate of Conformity" for your vehicle, it will give the maximum towable weight and max nose weight. Aim for close to the maximum but do not exceed it. It should also be on the two bar and, as has been said, is probably between 50 and 75kg.

With a 4-wheel trailer, you can "fine tune" nose weight by altering the front tyre pressures relative to the back ones slightly. Use bathroom scales for nose weight but make sure the hitch is at exactly the same height as it would be when on the car.

After the first 10 miles feel the tyres on the trailer as well as the hubs and check yu haven't got one that's hotter than the others. Also check all your lashings.

 

[Egbod]

Trailer snaking

Hi I am following this thread with interest after suffering from some snaking/oscillations earlier this year. I achieved a partial cure by moving the outboard from the back of the boat to inside the Land Rover Defender I was towing with. This created a very high nose weight - 100kgs. The trailer and boat weighed 1750kg.

I am now considering:

1 Changing the tow hitch as being adjustable in height with a single locking pin some movement is present. Maybe a rigidly attached tow bar would be better.

2 Fitting an anti-snaking device- Scott stabiliser?

3 Changing the tyres. I enquired at my local caravan centre and they told me of a problem towing caravans with one 4X4 vehicle, yet having perfect stability with a different 4X4 vehicle- same make, model and year of manufacture. The only difference was the make of tyre. A new set of tyres cured the problem.

3b Maybe the tyres fitted to the trailer also have an effect.

4 I am also interested in the best tyre pressure for towing- on the towing vehicle and the trailer. I was tempted to increase tyre pressures to make them less wobbly/squidgy but maybe going softer – decreased pressure - would help the tyres absorb road imperfections before they contribute to any snaking.

5 Do stiffer/ softer vehicle springs affect snaking? There is a choice of springs available for the Defender. The current ones are a bit stiff so the Defender responds to most road imperfections.

I used to think that towing with a defender was bomb proof until I saw one of the police TV programmes that showed a trailer overcoming a defender causing a jack-knife. Very nasty.

 

[Avocet]

I've got one of these:

http://www.towsure.com/product/Snakemaster_Quick_Release_Stabiliser

and it works extremely well. You can alter the amount of pre-load on the friction disc until you get just the right amount of damping - simply by tightening the nut on the bottom slightly.

I'm not sure what causes snaking, but I think it's a complex combination of a lot of factors - each of which is fairly simple on its own!

First of all, the geometry of the situation, I think, makes a difference. The wheelbase of the towing vehicle, the distance from the back axle to the centre of the towball, and the distance from the centre of the towball to the axle(s) on the trailer have quite an effect. I think tow cars with long wheelbases and short rear overhangs are good in this respect.

I also think that the distance from the centre of the towball to the car's roll axis makes a difference. If it lies pretty much ON the roll axis, the car can lean slightly as it turns and it won't make a difference. If the towball is a long way from that axis, then it will move sideways as the car rolls and "steer" the trailer without you wanting it to.

Obviously, trailer weight distribution makes a difference - nose heavy being regarded as good and tail heavy being regarded as bad!

I also think the polar moment of inertia of the trailer (i.e. whether all the weight is near the middle or whether the weight is uniformly distributed along its length, or whether (worst case!) the weight is concentrated at each end like a dumbell). That could be why taking the outboard off made a difference - not so much weight distribution, as the removal of a big "pendulum" from the back of the trailer overhang.

I think suspension geometry on both the car and the trailer make a difference. Some of the cheaper rubber suspensions found on trailers can, I think, change their toe setting with load, so that the wheels try to steer ever so slightly as the go over bumps or the trailer rolls. Big boat trailers (especially boats with keels) almost always have quite a high centre of gravity compared to other sorts of trailer.

I'm sure tyre sidewall stiffness (and to a lesser extent, pressure) make a difference too.

I've never really been able to figure out how all these (and probably other factors that I've never thought of!) interact to give you a combination that snakes like a pig or tows like a dream, to be honest!

I think an adjustable height to hitch is quite important for a 4-wheel trailer. Less so for a 2 wheel one. If you're only going to be towing one particular trialer and the laoding on car and trailer will always be pretty much the same, you can just get a fixed dropper plate to get the towball at the right height.

Defenders have much more axle articulation than the old leaf-sprung Series III Landrovers - so it's very important that all the various rubber bushes are in good condition and the dampers are in good condition.

 

[TSB240]

Many boat trailers use 13" wheels which have cheap tyres on them that are probably rated at less than .5 tonne.

Uneven loading and poor tow hitch height can easily overload these tyres especially when crossing high or low points on Uk roads.

I uprated our trailer before towing to Brittany this year. I used 8 ply high pressure tyres and they transformed the towability. There is no doubt the stiffer side walls and higher pressures prevent the initial sideways rock which is inevitably followed by the tail wagging the dog

I have never used a stabilizer as I think they just treat the symptom of the problem which is a badly set up load and trailer.

Our trailable yacht has a design weight considerably less than actual. We have to remove as much heavy gear to the Tow vehicle and stow everything else low down and centred over the two axles.

Our all up weight including holiday gear is in excess of 2.5 tonnes I have towed up to 2 tonnes with a Volvo 960. Probably one of the most capable tow cars around. I do not think there are many car derived tow vehicles rated at this load.

I now tow with a 4*4 that is rated up to 3 Tonnes

A note on maximum width.

Our loaded trailable yacht is right on the maximum legal width for towing it was much wider than the caravans in the ferry Queue.
Make sure you have really good mirror extensions otherwise you will never see anything coming up from behind.

Most tail boards are not as wide as the load so you need front and rear markers like caravans have for front and rear. We fitted some Bike Led lights which come with a perfect mount that fits the guard rail stanchions.

Put one on the end of your mast if you have much of an overhang.

Final Point we found adding a solid bow support helped make our trailer and boat become a very solid load behind and stopped the boat pitching independently of the trailer makes for a comfy ride.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Hmm, thinking about it I never had any snaking with the boat, only with a poorly loaded caravan. I think the weight of the trailer relative to the tow car is critical.

So with a heavy, powerful car & lightish caravan, acceleration will stop the snaking as the car takes control of the rig. If the trailer & load is at all close to the tow car weight there is little chance for the acceleration to be enough to take control & positive feedback could take over. Thanks for the comment.

And, when you eventually slow down, the trailer will take over again.

 

[Searush]

And, when you eventually slow down, the trailer will take over again.

Never had that issue. Once in a straight line I found I could apply brakes quite firmly & safely. Interesting to hear of other peoples' problems tho. TBH my boat towing experience was good & we never snaked, or wobbled from truck bow waves, but I suspect we never overtook any trucks either, despite the 300mile trip to Dumbarton!

 

[rob2]

Steady progressive but firm braking in a straight line will be OK so long as you wait for the trailer brakes to kick in before increasing the pressure. I believe one cause of snaking is that the car brakes are applied too hard before the trailer brakes are on, so the trailer tries to overtake its own nose!

Rob.

 

[DownWest]

Towed a 26ft from SoF to UK a while back. Austin Champ with the 4lt petrol engine. The trailer was a 4 wheel rigid axle on leaf springs. The short wheel base of the Champ, compared with the longish trailer was a problem for snaking. At over 50mph just lifting off could start it. Interestingly, a friend who had a bit of heavy towing experience said that quickly sawing the steering wheel could cancel the harmonic. Naturally the least experienced of us four let it get to 60mph on an A route. Realising his error he lifted off and we were all over the road inc the hard shoulder. A lot of shouting and he sawed the wheel and it did stop. A true brown trouser moment. I found later that if you kept the power on, then 65 was fine,as long as there was a hill ahead to slow you up without lifting off. (not reccomending any of this!!)
More recently, a guy was towng his light a/craft with a Jeep Cherokee on a 4 wheeler. As the plane was under a 1000lb, you wouldn't have thought it a problem. But it was set up with the axles well ahead of centre and a long rear overhang. Snaked badly. He arrived at my workshop one evening a bit concerned and I cut off the forward end and reversed the whole thing. Had to be more carefull cutting corners, but no snaking.

Yes SeaRush, petrol was cheap then. The Champ did under 9mpg towing...

 

[Philthy]

I tow our bilge keeler on a twin axle trailer.
First off, get the right trailer for the job. At 2T, you will need a twin axle trailer. Make sure it has tyres rated highly enough for the job. Higher load tyres will need much more pressure than normal tyres. Above 750Kg, the trailler must have brakes (some don't), check them.
If your bilge keeler will sit nicely on the trailer, put blocks of wood between trailer and boat. This is much less likely to slip on the trailer. Once you have the boat sat nicely on the trailer, introduce a brace/wooden rest forward of the keels, and ratchet the boat down onto it. Don't go mad, if the keels are bedded down on wood, it isn't going anywhere in normal driving. Then ratchet strap fore and aft of the keels. I don't worry about strapping the aft, it doesn't need it, but that is your choice.
Make sure the tow ball is attached properly, with all the safety clips/lines in place. If you have centred the boat properly, it should be balanced,and exert very little weight on the ball. 100Kgs or less is good. Ensure the jockey wheel is as far up and out of the way as possible, or it will get broken.
On level ground, the boat and trailer should stand freely on the trialers two axles without any other support.
Remove as much weight as possible from the boat. This goes without saying, but is easier once the boat is on the trailer, and not in the water.
Make absolutely certain the mast is secured properly, using braces or whatever. Don't forget the rigging and ropes. Gaffer tape is good to tie back stuff like this.

Now, the important bit.
Get the correct vehicle to tow the combination. I would suggest the biggest hairy arsed vehicle you can get, more is better here. A safe bet, is a big 4X4, but check towing weights/manufacturer limits. Check the tyre pressures, and inflate accordingly if necessary. This might not be necessary, if the trailer isn't exerting much of a load on the vehicle, which it won't if balanced. Forget fuel economy, safety comes at a price, and bigger is better.

Connect all lights/warning markers as necessary.

Gently pull off, and once moving, apply the brakes gently. Have someone watch if possible. This should show you if anything needs attention.
Set off again, but stop after 5-10 miles and check hub/tyre temperatures. Anything warming up, is a sign something is wrong. Check the securing straps/ropes and tighten as necessary.
If everything is ok, you're good to go.
Choose the quietest time of day/night for your journey. Nighttime is good for bigger loads.
Don't forget reduced speed limits. 60mph on a motorway, 50mph dual carriageway. You cannot use the outside lane of the motorway.
Take frequent stops, and check tyres/hubs/straps.

This is all presuming you have a licence to drive at these weights, if not, or the vehicle falls into HGV category, get a friendly trucker to drive for you

We could start discussing trailer snaking, but in essence, it happens because the vehicle towing isn't heavy enough. Get one that is at least the same weight as the trailer/boat. This will take you above 3500kgs limit for newer licences (issued after 1996 IIRC?), but is much safer.

After that, it's your driving. Us truckers wil give you a wide berth, we understand what it is to be bigger/slower, most car drivers aren't even aware.

Good luck.

Edit to add:
Andy, I've just noticed you are from the south west. I'm in Dawlish, and can give you a hand if necessary.
I have a trailer that might do the job, but would need you to discuss that with me, as it would need the boat taking off it.

 

[angelsson]

cartrailor.wmv

Can anyone give me any advice on towing a 2000kg bilge keeler on a trailer?

I'm not thinking so much about the legal weight limits, towcar requirements etc. as I can look those up. More about positioning the boat fore and aft on the trailer - should it be balanced or have a loading on the tow bar?

When towing a caravan the advice is that to maximise towing stability (and stop the van snaking) the tow hitch should exert around 7% of the weight of the van on the towbar. But boats are heavier and a bit more streamlined than caravans and I'm wondering what others have found or what the advice is when towing a boat?

I'm looking for a suitable trailer and am not quite sure what I'm looking for. Obviously it needs to have the weight bearing capacity and I'm expecting it to be a 4-wheeled job.