Coast Guard Policy on tasking a rescue

[Juan Twothree]

When sailing back from Ostend yesterday (Sunday) there was a pan pan from a yacht with an engine issue . It seems it was 10 miles east of Ramsgate & wanted a tow. Dover CG seemed to tell them to forget it & use their sails (10-15kts east so Ok but 1.5-2m swell)
Pan pan went on for ages & finally they got to Ramsgate. But as it was getting dark. Ramsgate port said that no one was available for a tow. So more pan pans as they sat outside. We could not get the full story so there may have been other issues.
What surprised me was that after about 1.5 hours the CG finally told them a lifeboat was coming from Margate, NOT Ramsgate, to tow them in.
Seems really odd that no one would come out of the harbour to get them. I am also surprised that there was no lifeboat at Ramsgate. Or at least one available for manning. I did read that manning was becoming an issue due to crews being fed up with "wasting"(depends on one's view of life) time picking up rubber dinghies & suffering abuse from occupants of said dinghies, as well as abuse from those ashore, who do not want the occupants to arrive anyway.
This must put the RNLI in one hell of a dilema.
SO. Is there an RNLI at Ramsgate ( cannot discuss dinghies on the forum so please do not) If there is , is it currently manned?

Margate Lifeboat Station hasn't been paged in the last 48 hours.

Ramsgate was paged at 2015 yesterday (Sunday) evening, and from their AIS the ALB appears to have picked up a tow a couple of miles off North Foreland, and towed it to the marina, so I'm guessing that was the vessel you heard.

Ramsgate has two lifeboats (a Tamar and an Atlantic), and has plenty of crew (I know a couple of them), as do pretty much all stations.

Manning generally across the RNLI isn't an issue, most stations that I know of have a waiting list of applicants waiting to join. However, we need to keep the number of crew to manageable levels, in order to maintain currency and skills, and with the best will in the world, the planets can sometimes align such that a station can find itself with insufficient crew or tractor drivers, and have to go off service for a few hours. The RNLI has an app we can use to show availability, so we know in advance if there is a problem looming, and people can often work from home, or arrange childcare or whatever, to keep the boat(s) on service.

As regards calls to rubber dinghies, it's only really Dover, and to a lesser extent Dungeness and Ramsgate that receive such calls, but even at Dover it's often weeks between them, as it's Border Force that bring in nearly all the migrants.

Crew at my station sometimes get abuse from the public about us being a taxi service, and I've received online threats, despite the fact that we're never going to be tasked to rescue migrants. But we just tend to shrug it off. It's not worth getting into an argument with people, and it's not enough to stop us doing what we do.

 

[Daydream believer]

Margate Lifeboat Station hasn't been paged in the last 48 hours.

Ramsgate was paged at 2015 yesterday (Sunday) evening, and from their AIS the ALB appears to have picked up a tow a couple of miles off North Foreland, and towed it to the marina, so I'm guessing that was the vessel you heard.

Ramsgate has two lifeboats (a Tamar and an Atlantic), and has plenty of crew (I know a couple of them), as do pretty much all stations.

Obviously I stand corrected. The time & position would be correct. So that is the casualty for certain.
However, Both my crew & myself distinctly heard the Dover coastguard mention Margate, So it was our assumption that it was that lifeboat. Clearly I am wrong.
Your comment re being a taxi service for migrants is possibly a result of media who love to show migrants being offloaded from RNLI boats. It may be the same pieces of film being re used & you cannot stop that. I am sure many forumites, as well as locals, have seen it & some may immediately form an opinion about their donations. In many cases unfairly. Targetting crews is a sign of the times and scary. The job is hard enough as it is.

 

[Never Grumble]

This was in the middle of Lyme Bay and the vessel was a few miles further out to sea than we were so totally exposed and in approximately 50m of water, anchor was down but they couldn't have had much scope out to hold in bad weather.

What exactly was the issue with their engine in this case? I get the impression that the emergency services are fed up tasking assets to go and recover bots with engine problems that probably could have been resolved either by preventative maintenance or through carrying some spares and a bit of knowledge.

I was motoring our yacht across Lyme Bay a few weeks ago, right at the furthest point from land the alternator bolt sheared. I didn't even think of making a pan pan but set about it with my tool kit and replaced it. Next time I might not be so lucky but carrying some spares ensured I made my own luck.

 

[LittleSister]

There's always more criticism online than constructive help, given my recent experience I thought sharing of towing company options could be of benefit to many. Anyway doesn't appear any information is available from respondents so far. If nothing else I hope's it's raised awareness for some as the experience did for myself.

Towing options will be local. I can't see much point in sharing specific towing company options on here (other than perhaps plaudits for those that have given good service or warnings about those who haven't) as YBW forumites are scattered around the whole of the UK and beyond, not to mention many travel far and wide in their boats.

I would think the harbourmaster for the nearest harbour to one's 'broken down' position would usually be a good starting point. They will typically have a good handle on the general availability and capabilities of people in and around their fiefdom who may be able to provide a tow (or perhaps even, though unlikely, engineers etc. who have a boat and could come out and try to fix the problem 'roadside assistance' style).

Returning to the original reported scenario, why was the boat anchored? If it was in the middle of Lyme Bay in fine weather, and unless the wind was blowing it offshore (and hence towards the shipping lanes), allowing it to drift in the wind and/or tide one way or the other (and anchoring when the tide is going the other way) would get it nearer a harbour, help and shallower water for anchoring.

 

[Lodestone]

"Here be Dragons" between Weymouth and Exmouth, or East of Selsey.
The Solent has good coverage.

View attachment 182322

It might be worth noting Seastarts's T's & C's Area of Operation | Sea Start

They provide a certain service under certain conditions - I am in no way knocking them but it is important to understand the limits and terms of the service.

I am a member but there are some craft that they know nothing about. I had a Williams ( ) in good condition registered with them that I was having problems with in the West Country. They were unable to help and we were on our own again. Quite why they accepted membership for it is up for debate. However my plans B & C and so on were the paddles strapped to the tubes, the small drogue and the Bruce with a decent scope.

Personally my view is that if I can assist a vessel I will, even if it changes my plans for the day and I have to go some distance. I have done this several times simply because next time it could be me.

 

[Richard.C]

"Here be Dragons" between Weymouth and Exmouth, or East of Selsey.
The Solent has good coverage.

View attachment 182322

I am a Sea Start member and have been since I purchased our current boat, this Sea Start coverage map is potentially misleading though. Ignoring Lyme Bay and East of Selsey Bill the map would infer continuous coverage of the south coast by the yellow marked area. Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, when you read the small print in the blue box it clarifies that coverage is actually only a 3 mile radius from each of the ports marked with a black dot. So there would actually be a number of uncovered areas along the South coast, in particular west of Poole.

 

[Lodestone]

I wonder if the correct answer to 'who do you call?' is actually...the rest of us.

Under normal circumstances there are far more power vessels out there than there are RNLI, Volunteer (Independent) Life Brigades or Sea Start boats.

If you look at other sports - caving, climbing, diving - in the first instance you are your own rescue service.

 

[Juan Twothree]

However, Both my crew & myself distinctly heard the Dover coastguard mention Margate, So it was our assumption that it was that lifeboat. Clearly I am wrong.
Your comment re being a taxi service for migrants is possibly a result of media who love to show migrants being offloaded from RNLI boats. It may be the same pieces of film being re used & you cannot stop that.

No, you were probably correct in what you heard. Dover CG had several jobs running at the time, so it was likely to be a slip of the tongue from someone trying to do several things at once.

And you're spot on re the media using the same few stock photos of lifeboats, often the one of migrants being offloaded on the beach at Dungeness

They haven't landed any migrants there for a very long time, but that is the only photo the press have which shows migrants close up.

It's no wonder the public thinks the RNLI is out there every day picking up migrants.

 

[SC35]

I am a Sea Start member and have been since I purchased our current boat, this Sea Start coverage map is potentially misleading though. Ignoring Lyme Bay and East of Selsey Bill the map would infer continuous coverage of the south coast by the yellow marked area. Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, when you read the small print in the blue box it clarifies that coverage is actually only a 3 mile radius from each of the ports marked with a black dot. So there would actually be a number of uncovered areas along the South coast, in particular west of Poole.

I read it differently … “to sea” could mean “distance from the shore” or “along the coast”. It would be interesting to get a clarification.

 

[ylop]

I read it differently … “to sea” could mean “distance from the shore” or “along the coast”. It would be interesting to get a clarification.

To sea has a specific meaning for coding purposes, it means 3nm from the edge of categorised waters, which presumably is the limiting factor.

 

[petem]

How many boats / mechanics does SeaStart have these days?

 

[Scubadoo]

No, you were probably correct in what you heard. Dover CG had several jobs running at the time, so it was likely to be a slip of the tongue from someone trying to do several things at once.

And you're spot on re the media using the same few stock photos of lifeboats, often the one of migrants being offloaded on the beach at Dungeness

They haven't landed any migrants there for a very long time, but that is the only photo the press have which shows migrants close up.

It's no wonder the public thinks the RNLI is out there every day picking up migrants.

Not just the media, RNLI use it in their "saving lives at sea BBC program", I think I have seen it on several episodes over the years.

 

[Scubadoo]

What exactly was the issue with their engine in this case? I get the impression that the emergency services are fed up tasking assets to go and recover bots with engine problems that probably could have been resolved either by preventative maintenance or through carrying some spares and a bit of knowledge.

I was motoring our yacht across Lyme Bay a few weeks ago, right at the furthest point from land the alternator bolt sheared. I didn't even think of making a pan pan but set about it with my tool kit and replaced it. Next time I might not be so lucky but carrying some spares ensured I made my own luck.

The RNLI have over the years run awareness campaigns regarding maintenance etc and even used to do safety checks, this was based on their callout engine failure stats.

I too had a bolt sheared off the steering pump that took out all three belts, although I couldn't fix the bolt I had the spare belts and thankfully seastart made a temporary fix to get me home, all done within 30mins while drifting.

 

[Petertheking1982]

Under Solas V we all have a legal obligation to offer assistance if it is safe for us to do so. This is why we should monitor channel 16. I am surprised the other hero's of the sea have not been mentioned....fishermen. In the original post the boat was in Lyme bay, known to be a busy fishing area, I would imagine the coastguard looked at ais and judged that one of these would tow them in (like the kind op did).

 

[ylop]

Under Solas V we all have a legal obligation to offer assistance if it is safe for us to do so.

For a PanPan?

I am surprised the other hero's of the sea have not been mentioned....fishermen.

They were. Posts 18 and 22.

 

[Petertheking1982]

I belive the current RNLI policy of not towing unless in serious distress originated a few years ago after an incident with the Guernsey life boat. They where out on training when a mate of skipper broke down and got a tow in by them. The problem was this wasn't officially actioned, and a local tow company complained saying it is not the RNLI remit to offer a tow service (which it is not) unless the vessel is in distress. I think this was discussed here at the time. This is anecdotal and I am happy to be corrected.

 

[Petertheking1982]

For a PanPan?

They were. Posts 18 and 22.

Just double checked, only for distress / mayday. It doesn't mention pan pan.

 

[ylop]

... and if not, Why Not! (assuming they cover your area of course)

Interesting that there is an assumption/implication that not being a member of SeaStart is some sort of deficiency. As clearly shown in this thread it has a rather limited coverage area, but even assuming you rarely leave that area its an option, but I wonder if it leads to complacency like we now see on the roads where people don't know how to change a tyre or jump start a car themselves. I'd rather be on a boat where the skipper knew he didn't have seastart but maintained the engines well, had the obvious spart parts (which s/s would carry - belts, filters, impeller) and the skills/tools to fit them than be on a boat which had a membership but the skipper never opened the engine bay himself. Ironically Seastart is only a viable business proposition in busy waters; Seastart is most use when there's nobody else around to give you some help. You might conclude Seastart is selling on fear rather than actual risk.

 

[Lodestone]

Interesting that there is an assumption/implication that not being a member of SeaStart is some sort of deficiency. As clearly shown in this thread it has a rather limited coverage area, but even assuming you rarely leave that area its an option, but I wonder if it leads to complacency like we now see on the roads where people don't know how to change a tyre or jump start a car themselves. I'd rather be on a boat where the skipper knew he didn't have seastart but maintained the engines well, had the obvious spart parts (which s/s would carry - belts, filters, impeller) and the skills/tools to fit them than be on a boat which had a membership but the skipper never opened the engine bay himself. Ironically Seastart is only a viable business proposition in busy waters; Seastart is most use when there's nobody else around to give you some help. You might conclude Seastart is selling on fear rather than actual risk.

Can't disagree with that.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Can't disagree with that.

Well, I do. I carry a full spares kit, a lot of tools, ensure everything mechanical is maintained properly, and undertake meticulous checks before I set off. But I’m relatively infirm, I have modest but limited mechanical skills, my wife is not a mechanic, and so I would rely on Seastart to help me if I got into mechanical difficulties. Not try and fix things myself as a first / preferred option.

Just as I would never consider fixing my own car by the roadside.