The pro's and cons of steel boat building

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We bought a steel boat on the premise that if you go long distance sailing it is only a matter of time before you hit something or something or something hits you. We were hit on the port bow at anchor when were off the boat so we don't know what did it, small scratch. The second time we were anchored off Dominica preparing to go to customs and immigration when a boat boy, in a heavy wooden pirogue, hit us on the beam at full speed he couldn't get the engine out of gear. Jane went to clear in with him and by the time she got back I had filled and painted the big scratch. If we had a GRP boat it would have punched a hole in the side destroyed anything behind it. Most boat boys pull up alongside but he was racing another pirogue to get to us.
 
KellysEye said:
We bought a steel boat on the premise that if you go long distance sailing it is only a matter of time before you hit something or something or something hits you. We were hit on the port bow at anchor when were off the boat so we don't know what did it, small scratch. The second time we were anchored off Dominica preparing to go to customs and immigration when a boat boy, in a heavy wooden pirogue, hit us on the beam at full speed he couldn't get the engine out of gear. Jane went to clear in with him and by the time she got back I had filled and painted the big scratch. If we had a GRP boat it would have punched a hole in the side destroyed anything behind it. Most boat boys pull up alongside but he was racing another pirogue to get to us.
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Interested to know what damage the pirogue suffered.

If the collision was as you state and there was no substantial dent, was it really that hard? Did the wooden boat come off worse?

PBO Magazine had serious trouble breaking GRP in the feature on destroying a yacht.

I have seen several very heavy collisions with 20 ton Canal working boats converted to hire boats. Only one caused significant damage to another boat because the hit boat was hard aground around a blind bend. Not easy to stop a heavy vessel by throwing it in astern in very shallow water! When a GRP boat was hit by the same heavy riveted iron narrow boat the grp vessel skittered off like a ping pong ball. If one vessel is stationary, even if held at one end by a mooring or anchor, it will normally " ride the blow " by moving in the direction of the impact.

Not suggesting that your experience was not a significant event, but if your vessel was only deeply scratched, perhaps not that heavy an impact after all. I own a strongly made Corten steel boat. If that was hit hard on the beam above the waterline by the bow of another boat the hull plating would certainly deform. As would the internal storage lockers behind the hull plating.

Unless, of course, it was a glancing blow, not at almost right angles. A glancing blow would, in my experience, push both vessels apart and cause severe scratches, not dents.

My two penny worth anyway...................................................
 
rotrax said:
Interested to know what damage the pirogue suffered.

If the collision was as you state and there was no substantial dent, was it really that hard? Did the wooden boat come off worse?

PBO Magazine had serious trouble breaking GRP in the feature on destroying a yacht.

I have seen several very heavy collisions with 20 ton Canal working boats converted to hire boats. Only one caused significant damage to another boat because the hit boat was hard aground around a blind bend. Not easy to stop a heavy vessel by throwing it in astern in very shallow water! When a GRP boat was hit by the same heavy riveted iron narrow boat the grp vessel skittered off like a ping pong ball. If one vessel is stationary, even if held at one end by a mooring or anchor, it will normally " ride the blow " by moving in the direction of the impact.

Not suggesting that your experience was not a significant event, but if your vessel was only deeply scratched, perhaps not that heavy an impact after all. I own a strongly made Corten steel boat. If that was hit hard on the beam above the waterline by the bow of another boat the hull plating would certainly deform. As would the internal storage lockers behind the hull plating.

Unless, of course, it was a glancing blow, not at almost right angles. A glancing blow would, in my experience, push both vessels apart and cause severe scratches, not dents.

My two penny worth anyway...................................................
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The first origami 36 footer I built ,survived 16 days of pounding in 8 to 12 ft surf on a Baja lee shore ,just south of San Ignacio, and was pulled of thru a quarter mile of 12 ft surf ,being lifted and dropped 12 ft onto hard sand with each wave, no serious damage.
Viski , one of my 36 footers, while circumnavigating, pounded across 300 yards of Fijian coral reef , in big surf, then was pulled back over the reef by a tug, in the same surf, with no serious damage. A sister ship was blown ashore in the Mozambique channel in a hurricane, and suffered no serious damage. How would the average plastic boat have fared, in the same situation? Joshua went aground in Cabo, in a storm which quickly broke up most plastic boats, including the 40 footer which landed on top of her, but she still sails . Most plastic boats break up in minutes, in such situations.
The French Joshua type boat "Pygmalion", was blown ashore in Spain, onto a lee shore, and pounded there for days, in up to 80 knot winds, with no damage .She had dry dust in her bilge, when they finally got back aboard . She was lifted by crane onto a flat bed , taken to the nearest travel lift, relaunched, and quickly headed for the West Indies.

Here is a quote from the Metal Boat Society facebook forum.
How would the average plastic boat have fared in this situation?

(Quote)
Rendon Slade
During Ike in Galveston, my boat was broken free from its pilings, blew across the marina; sinking several boats, landed on a concrete parking lot, and proceeded to beat it to gravel. It only has one dent in the keel and one at the bottom of the rudder for hull damage. It was dismasted and lost its davits, solar, etc....but it stayed dry inside. It wasn't my boat back then.
(Quote)
 
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Here are some more
(Quote)

Here are pictures of the only damage to the hull of Smartini, after riding out Hurricane Irma in the Key West Bight Marina. (You should see the pilings! Or what's left of them, anyway.) We wouldn't even have had this damage had we made our bow and stern lines a little tighter. Left too much slack in them to account for 6' of storm surge, but we got only 2'. And our giant inflatable fenders blew up and onto the boat (and two of them popped), or we would have been fine. Lessons learned. (If we had been a fiberglass boat, I don't even want to think what we'd look like at this point!)
(Quote)

John J Paskoski
I used to keep the striker at a friends dock and whenever the wind would whip up they got scared that my boat would destroy the dock.I had to assure them that since i knew how to tie the boat up that would never happen.I did knock over 2 pilings during a hurricane at that dock but it because the dock builder didn't sink them down to 25 feet.they were only down 5 feet so my boat pushed them right over.
(Quote)
 
Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

Brent Swain said:
The BC coast is littered with abandoned plastic boats. 30 years ago they would have been quickly scooped and brought back to life .In Frisco they are being ground up for concrete reinforcement.I heard the back waters of the US east coast are filling up with abandoned plastic boats which no one wants. Is that also the case on your side of the pond? Has the Greek financial meltdown led to a similar situation there?
A friend bought an extremely well equiped Alberg 35 for $25 K, when the owner aspiring to go cruising , spent many years working to buy all the toys he was told he "had to have ", ran into health problems, and had to sell her cheaply .
That being the situation, does it make any sense to spend a lifetime worth of cruising funds for any boat, when so many boats just as good are for sale so cheaply, or sometimes even free? It is all to common to spend so much on a boat that there is not enough $ left for using her. Also, having so much tied up in the boat adds greatly to the stress of using her ,undermining her true purpose ,pleasure.
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I really dont know what you are trying to say here.

You might have shores littered with abandoned GRP boats. They might be being ground up for concrete reinforcement in San Francisco.
You might have heard the same about the US East coast backwaters.

Is it true? Perhaps. Of course there are abandoned boats this side of the pond, but not that many.

When anything outlives its usefullness, gets to the end of its life, it is over for that item unless, like Classic Cars and Motorbikes it becomes collectable.

The Alberg owner made poor choices. Not perhaps with his purchase of the boat, but taking bad advice. That is life.

Unlike you and I Brent, he was not streetwise about boats and sailing.

You, because of the lifestyle you have chosen know little about financing for a chosen lifestyle or pastime. You provide all, or most of what you need for little money, because you can.

Most others cant. That is no call to patronise and deride them.

I spent a great deal of money on my current boat. You know, the one with the pilothouse about to fall off, the dangerously narrow sidedecks made from plastic that will disintigrate when within 100 metres of a whale, sunken shipping container or reef.

Only had it two seasons, but travelled well over 3,000 NM in her. The main reason was to have a boat that allowed First Mate and I to keep sailing for a few more years. Untill our physical problems-which will not get better-stop us doing it. It is a quality boat, fitted from new with top quality equipment and accesories. The capital cost was high, but is already repaying us with good trouble free service. Buying a discarded old clunker might be your choice, but I spent my life fixing up old tat and enough is enough.

Trouble free sailing so far in a modern, comfortable, well equiped sailing boat that is easy to get on and off, that my friend, is priceless.......................................
 
Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

rotrax said:
I really dont know what you are trying to say here.

You might have shores littered with abandoned GRP boats. They might be being ground up for concrete reinforcement in San Francisco.
You might have heard the same about the US East coast backwaters.

Is it true? Perhaps. Of course there are abandoned boats this side of the pond, but not that many.



The Alberg owner made poor choices. Not perhaps with his purchase of the boat, but taking bad advice. That is life.

Yes Rotax, that is exactly what I have said, that he made a poor choice in choosing plastic over metal, costing him his life.

Unlike you and I Brent, he was not streetwise about boats and sailing.

You, because of the lifestyle you have chosen know little about financing for a chosen lifestyle or pastime.

No Rotax, having never owed a penny to any bank, and never paid a penny of bank interest, in my entire life, shows a great understanding of finance. Mine is MY chosen lifestyle, which I first aspired to in my mid teens, to realise and live in my early 20's. Sounds like financial success to me.

Most others cant.

No Rotax, anyone can, if they make the right choices, not seek out ,and build excuses.

I spent a great deal of money on my current boat. You know, the one with the pilothouse about to fall off, the dangerously narrow sidedecks made from plastic that will disintigrate when within 100 metres of a whale, sunken shipping container or reef.

Your words Rotax, not mine!

. Buying a discarded old clunker might be your choice, but I spent my life fixing up old tat and enough is enough.

Trouble free sailing so far in a modern, comfortable, well equiped sailing boat that is easy to get on and off, that my friend, is priceless.......................................
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I have only bought one boat in my life, an 8 ft dinghy. The rest, I built myself ,all custom, hand made . I have never bought an old clunker, as you so misleadingly imply. My sailing has thus been extremly comforable, trouble free, and easy sailing, in my modern custom ,hand made, new vessels, for a fraction the time, work, and money of buying a new one.
They have been designed by someone with decades of steel working and boat building experience, living aboard and and cruising experince,( me), unlike many, designed by super expensive, world reknown designers with little or no hands on cruising , living aboard or boat building experience, but lots of self promotion experience.
Try reading my posts, before making up, quoting, and attributing to me, that which I have never said.
 
I just read in the September 2017 issue of Yachting Monthly , about two boats which had their keels fall of ,and sank quickly, taking the lives of 4 on one boat and 3 on another. That is why some of us bother with steel.
A couple of weeks ago, I met a guy who had been sailing his 39 ft stock plastic boat off Mexico, and hit a whale. The boat sank quickly, leaving him in a dinghy .Luckily it was calm, and he had a VHF so he only rowed for a couple of hours. He agreed strongly when we said he should have been in a steel boat, which would have suffered zero damage hitting a whale.
That is why some of us bother with steel.
Read Moitessier's book "The Long Way"
Then read Web Chile's book "Storm Passage" for a comparison between doing such a voyage in steel vs plastic. Moitessier was dry and comfortable the whole way, with dust in his bilges, while Chiles was constantly pumping for his life. Nothing broke on Moitessier's boat , except for a bent bow sprit, when he hit a ship, which he was able to quickly fix, at sea, without losing much time.
That is why some of us bother with steel boats.
Chile's boat had "Yottie" priorities, Bernard's industrial priorities.
Read the recent series in Sail magazine, of someone doing the same route in a stock, plastic, Bob Perry designed, Baba 40. He was soaking wet, and pumping for his life most of the way.
That is why some of us bother with steel boats.
The first 36 I built , pounded on a west coast Baja lee shore, in up to 12 ft surf for 16 days, and was pulled off thru 12 ft surf; no serious damage.
That is why some of us bother with steel boats.
One of my 36 footers was blown across 300 yards of Fijian coral reef, and then dragged back across it, in big surf, by a tug., No serious damage.
It later collided with a freighter in Gibraltar.
No serious damage .
One was blown ashore in a hurricane in Mozambique . No serious damage.
One did a single season transit of the NW passage.
No serious damage. That is why some of us bother with steel.
Some of us would rather deal with chipping and painting, at our leisure, in port, than take the risk of having to deal with pumping for dear life, at sea.
Doesn't matter much if it is in the Atlantic or Pacific . You are just as likely to sink, if you hit a container in plastic, and just as screwed if you end up in a dinghy in rough water at night.
Some of us would rather go in steel, and drastically reduce the odds of such problems.
A Canadian was off the Great Barrier reef a few years back in a stock plastic boat, and his dangerously floppy Yanmar engine mounts broke. The engine punched a huge hole in his hull, and he had to be rescued by a helicopter. The boat sank quickly. Wouldn't have been a problem in a steel hull .Later, he went missing without a trace on a trip from Hawaii to BC ,in the same design plastic boat. Probably less likely in a steel boat.
That is why some of us prefer steel.
The Sleavin Family would have probably survived their tragic collision with a freighter, had their boat been steel.
That is why some of us prefer steel.
 
And here is one response to that post.
Go say that in the open sailing forums and you'll get a rain of posts about how thick their plastic hulls are etc etc. Me? I got pushed onto a reef in the Abrolhos Is. off Western Australia - came out to move the boat and saw the masts over and looked down on the reef- our long keel was pinned on it. Was about to move because of an approaching front. Saw the 'glass drop, saw it on radar - the whole thing but just didn't move - just tired after a 48 hour slog into a heavy sea and didn't move when I should have. I had no choice but to drive it off before we were pushed right ONTO the reef. We could not kedge our way off as the drop-off upwind was too deep. Felt the prop chopping its way through the reef while my wife took up chain and we could get some way. Took 2500 rpm before the boat even moved - we were pinned! We had to grind our way probably 15 metres before we could get some course change. My word for steel is - forgiving.
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Brent Swain said:
I just read in the September 2017 issue of Yachting Monthly , about two boats which had their keels fall of ,and sank quickly, taking the lives of 4 on one boat and 3 on another. That is why some of us bother with steel.
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Steel boat:

Titanic_wreck_bow.jpg
 
Search "Law of mechanical similitude". Educate yourself! How many of you own a boat the size of the Titanic? Rise your hand! Unless you do, the Titanic has absolutely ZERO relevance to the size of boats we are talking about.
 
Brent Swain said:
Search "Law of mechanical similitude". Educate yourself! How many of you own a boat the size of the Titanic? Rise your hand! Unless you do, the Titanic has absolutely ZERO relevance to the size of boats we are talking about.
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Your statement was "Steel boats do not sink" you do not qualify this with size or type. So you were either wrong or wrong, take your pick.
 
Brent Swain said:
And here is one response to that post.
Go say that in the open sailing forums and you'll get a rain of posts about how thick their plastic hulls are etc etc. Me? I got pushed onto a reef in the Abrolhos Is. off Western Australia - came out to move the boat and saw the masts over and looked down on the reef- our long keel was pinned on it. Was about to move because of an approaching front. Saw the 'glass drop, saw it on radar - the whole thing but just didn't move - just tired after a 48 hour slog into a heavy sea and didn't move when I should have. I had no choice but to drive it off before we were pushed right ONTO the reef. We could not kedge our way off as the drop-off upwind was too deep. Felt the prop chopping its way through the reef while my wife took up chain and we could get some way. Took 2500 rpm before the boat even moved - we were pinned! We had to grind our way probably 15 metres before we could get some course change. My word for steel is - forgiving.
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Steel boats knocking the crap out of coral reefs doesn't sound like a good thing to me.
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