The pro's and cons of steel boat building

[newtothis]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

Don't forget "free people who cruise 11 months a year , or more..."

Brent, you've been close enough to shore-based internet to be banging on about your tin cans for well over a month. By your own admission, you're due a long cruise. Could you come back in a year with a report on how many whale/container/reef strikes you survived?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

Don't forget "free people who cruise 11 months a year , or more, with an environmental foot print which is microscopic, compared to the mainstream folks, instead of cruising only on the odd weekend, and a three week summer vacation." Don't forget "People who are very capable of doing their own work ,and doing adult day care work for those who can't, when off the beaten path, in remote areas, who's gear is mostly "custom, hand made" to a much higher standard of reliability than anything you can buy from a marine store."

Looks like I forgot to mention vehement self-righteousness as well.

 

[Tranona]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

It was not me who first mentioned steel boats on this thread , but had to correct the instant disinformation attack on all steel boats, which followed a steel boat enthusiasts post. (see post#2) Not doing so would be a disinformation disservice to readers, leaving them mislead.

Will you explain what this means?

I wrote post#2 and there is no mention of steel - why would there be? I was offering an explanation as to why the boats had an enthusiastic following.

You really should not highjack threads just to give you another platform for your views. By all means comment on IPs IF you have specific experience, which from your observations you clearly do not.

 

[scotty123]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

Brent, you've been close enough to shore-based internet to be banging on about your tin cans for well over a month. By your own admission, you're due a long cruise. Could you come back in a year with a report on how many whale/container/reef strikes you survived?

https://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1579788/

 

[rotrax]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

It was not me who first mentioned steel boats on this thread , but had to correct the instant disinformation attack on all steel boats, which followed a steel boat enthusiasts post. (see post#2) Not doing so would be a disinformation disservice to readers, leaving them mislead.

Yes Brent-what are you on about.

Post #2 was a post about the posters perception/opinion of Island Packet Yachts.

No derogatory remarks or mention of steel boats whatsoever.

Like the " IP's have got narrow sidedecks " issue-will you put your hand up and say you got it wrong?

I await your reply-but without much hope of an answer.........................

 

[rotrax]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

Not wishing to bring up the other thread on tin boats ( in the vain hope it will fade..) and absolutely nothing to do with IP boats... I had a look at origami stuff and came up with this: http://www.kastenmarine.com/frames_first.htm
scroll down a bit until it comes up with frameless construction and origami.

Very informative.

It cerainly highlights the limitations of that construction method.

Obviously, useable vessels can be fabricated by the origami method, but limited in shape and size.

Our steel boat enthusiast has not mentioned any of these shortcomings in his posts extolling the method.

I wonder why?

 

[Frogmogman]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

Yet again, Brent has shown that he is the living embodiment of Reductio ad absurdum.

Whatever the subject of a thread, he will pop up and introduce home-built steel boats into the equation.

I fail to see what relevance the type of boat he so eloquently(and frequently) espouses, has to do with the merits of Island Packets.

Just sayin'

 

[Brent Swain]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

The more I read your posts the more I somehow tend to doubt that !!!
I am gradually building a mental picture of some "DIY disaster" floating about the oceans.
Of course I might be totally wrong, one would hope so, perhaps it's the way you present your points. I wonder if others have the same feeling.

In over 40 years of ocean cruising ,none of my boats has ever had any serious structural problems at sea, which is far more than you can say for many stock plastic boats.

 

[rotrax]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

In over 40 years of ocean cruising ,none of my boats has ever had any serious structural problems at sea, which is far more than you can say for most stock plastic boats.

Once again you show your lack of knowlege about how the rest of the world go about their leisure hobby of sailing, and for the more adventurous circumnavigating and living aboard in exotic places.

Of course some stock plastic boats have had structural problems. After all, they are many, many times more numerous worldwide than steel boats. Millions compared to thousands perhaps.

Your statement is patently incorrect. Most stock boats have NO structural problems during their lifetmes.

I, of course, could be wrong. I hope, if I am, you will direct me to the factual evidence of what you state.

Note Brent, factual evidence that MOST stock GRP boats suffer structural failure.

After all, that is what you clearly state.

Otherwise Brent, you might be guilty of hypocricy.

You know-exactly what you clearly state others are doing to steel boats reputation. Stating that they are inferior and defective without any factual evidence to support your wild claim....................................

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

In over 40 years of ocean cruising ,none of my boats has ever had any serious structural problems at sea, which is far more than you can say for most stock plastic boats.

Brent I do not want to attack you and I think your perspective on steel boats is interesting, but sometimes you let yourself down. Most GRP boats do not have serious structural problems at sea, a tiny minority have been reported in some very high profile cases but over the years there have been tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of GRP boats, who have had no serious structural problems at sea.

 

[newtothis]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

I still fail to understand what discussion on merits of steel boats has to do with the topic of this thread. Seriously...

It's not a discussion of steel boats; it's a discussion of Brent's "Narcissus" brand tin cans, the only worthy ship ever built anywhere for any purpose by anyone. The real question (according to Brent) is why is anyone discussing anything else but his one true design.

 

[Tranona]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

I still fail to understand what discussion on merits of steel boats has to do with the topic of this thread. Seriously...

Suggest you take it up with the poster who wants to discuss steel boats! Best of luck as one of his less endearing characteristics is a very thick skin and total resistance to any criticism.

 

[Brent Swain]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

Yes Brent-what are you on about.

Post #2 was a post about the posters perception/opinion of Island Packet Yachts.

No derogatory remarks or mention of steel boats whatsoever.

Like the " IP's have got narrow sidedecks " issue-will you put your hand up and say you got it wrong?

I await your reply-but without much hope of an answer.........................

Yes ,I see you have edited that part out ,just recently .

 

[Lucky Duck]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

Neither the post you have quoted or #2 have been edited

Any luck with the bit about most grp boats suffering serious structural issues while at sea yet?

 

[Brent Swain]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

My response was in response to someone attacking steel boats in general, in response to someone mentioning steel boats as an option( which has since been edited out).
At any rate ,with so many good , older plastic boats being abandoned, ground up for concrete reinforcing, or sold for a fraction the cost of material in them, it makes no sense to spend over $300K on a cruising boat.
The difference in cost could pay for a huge amount of upgrades, a still leave enough money left over for years of cruising. Spending all the money on the boat ,and not having enough to cruise in her is a very common mistake. It also makes cruising far more stressful, the more money you have in a boat ( much more to lose, if you screw up).

 

[Brent Swain]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

Neither the post you have quoted or #2 have been edited

Any luck with the bit about most grp boats suffering serious structural issues while at sea yet?

Yachting monthly had a story recently about keels falling off two boats, costing 6 lives, recently . Just read of yet another ,costing 4 lives . Another coming home from Hawaii last summer went missing without a trace. Narrow, deep keels with narrow tops, and bolts on the centreline of the keel ,is a common problem with many modern boats.

 

[Brent Swain]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

So Brent-have you seen the technical specifications and drawings with all the stress calculations! I can assure you they exist as Bob Johnson the designer, as well as being a long time sailor and yacht designer was an areospace engineer at a high level.

Without seeing these tech specs you are only in a position to jump to delusions.



You often throw " This or that steel boat spent six days being pounded on a reef or beach! "

Well, in my view good seamanship would have kept them out of danger.

We obviously have differing views on seamanship too.............................

The suggestion being that ,boats should not be built strongly enough to survive mistakes, and adverse experiences , as mistakes and adverse experiences can be eliminated completely. Bob Perry ( who claims to have designed all the IP's, as well as Amazons ( a Graham Shannon design ,which he had nothing to do with designing) made the same claim.
Specs or no specs, big windows and big wheelhouses break far more easily than small ones ,period.
The Challenger was designed by the worlds top aerospace designers (infallible you say?)

 

[Lucky Duck]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

Yachting monthly had a story recently about keels falling off two boats, costing 6 lives, recently . Just read of yet another ,costing 4 lives . Another coming home from Hawaii last summer went missing without a trace. Narrow, deep keels with narrow tops, and bolts on the centreline of the keel ,is a common problem with many modern boats.

As pointed out previously the assertion was the most boats suffered serious failures rather than a few isolated examples

 

[Tranona]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

Yachting monthly had a story recently about keels falling off two boats, costing 6 lives, recently . Just read of yet another ,costing 4 lives . Another coming home from Hawaii last summer went missing without a trace. Narrow, deep keels with narrow tops, and bolts on the centreline of the keel ,is a common problem with many modern boats.

You need to do more than just read magazine headlines to understand the complex issues surrounding the tiny number of boats that "lose keels".

Claiming "most GRP boats suffer structural failures" based on that is just arrant nonsense. Would welcome your explanation as to why literally hundreds of thousands of GRP boats NEVER have any structural problems.

Making stupid statements like that explains clearly why you do not have a clue what you are talking about and nobody takes any notice of what you say.

So, probably best if you stop posting on this forum unless of course you like exposing yourself to ridicule.

 

[newtothis]

Re: Island Packet-are they worth it?

At any rate ,with so many good , older plastic boats being abandoned, ground up for concrete reinforcing, or sold for a fraction the cost of material in them, it makes no sense to spend over $300K on a cruising boat.
The difference in cost could pay for a huge amount of upgrades, a still leave enough money left over for years of cruising.

Wait a minute... I thought all plastic boats were just pieces of shit rotting in marinas because people were too busy working, blah, blah, buy my steel boat designs. Now you're saying they're are long-lived cruising boats.
Really Brent, narcissism and schizophrenia are not happy bedfellow. But you'll be off on your 11 months of the year cruise by now I guess.