hlb
RIP
I think Henry has got that loud and clear.
Yes, I noticed that he'd gone awful quiet. Was it Mucky Goes To War. That frightened him off.
The Forum Burgee.
- Thread starter hlb
- Start date
Yes, I noticed that he'd gone awful quiet. Was it Mucky Goes To War. That frightened him off.
Javelin
Well-known member
I'd like one if and when it gets sorted out.
epervier
Active member
Wrong!
it's not just a flag,
It's OUR burgee.
and that's the point, no one is forced to fly one, you won't get black balled if you don't, it's been around for more than a decade, it ain't broken so why change it?
tinkicker0
New member
I'm sure he had the best of intentions regarding the burgee though. Can't damn him for suggesting a change if he thought one was required. I must admit even I found the depth of loyalty expressed to the flag on here a big surprise and its one of my prized boaty possessions. Swmbo even ironed it after it came off the vhf antenna.
Let's not be hard on the guy, he was only trying to help.
bradtarga34
New member
I'm not a big poster but I love being part of this fantastic community, I can't see many places pulling this sort of thing off, which is why we have worldwide posters. I was so happy to have my new burgee on my boat today, albeit maybe not up to original standard, but really, in the over all scale of boating is it a real expense and a nice shout out to all our fellow forumites. HLB, and of course the oracle, B1, well done and long may it continue!
henryf
Well-known member
Haydn
With the greatest of respect how the hell do you know if my idea takes into account the fundamentals of what the forum stands for? You haven't seen the design and I haven't described it in any way shape or form.
I know you're going to say it's rubbish regardless but at least wait until you've seen the concept before shooting it down.
Similarly how does sending a stamped addressed envelope make you a great person? Big Ron who does a bit of work for me used to rob post offices back in the day. He had transit vans full of envelopes & stamps along with the tax discs, cash and pension booklets. After serving 17 years of a 25 year sentence he's mellowed but at the time he was a tiny bit short tempered. 9 fingers Dave will vouch for that
Why should only a select few forum members and contributors be able to get hold of a burgee? I think everyone who contributes should know of the burgee and be able to order one if they wish.
I also think that if the design truly reflects the fundamentals of what the forum is all about it might even encourage new members. I am going to suggest a design which doesn't even require explanation, as soon as you see it you will know the person is a forum participant.
Sadly I don't expect it to go viral and be the next must have accessory around the world. It will only be flown by people who frequent these pages.
I keep saying it Haydn but my suggestion is in no way a reflection of any failing on your part. In fact quite the contrary, you lit the baton and got it moving.
If it ain't broke ? Decca didn't break. People just stopped using it because they found GPS better as the technology became more readily available and eventually it was switched off.
Henry
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hlb
RIP
Not trying to be hard on anyone, but it is a forum, not a dictatorship.. I'll try to get my blokes number back. Maybe some thing can be worked out. Like I said. I cant walk anymore. So there will have to be a different method. Mind, at the new price, I could always crawl forty miles for them.
henryf
Well-known member
Indeed.
Surely you are being dictatorial by not allowing any suggestions for change.
I'm merely going to put forward an idea or two and I'm happy to do the running around, even dip my hand in my pocket. But ultimately this is a group decision and not something which can be decided over a couple of days.
We need sufficient time for as many members as possible to look, digest and suggest.
Henry
hlb
RIP
Haydn
With the greatest of respect how the hell do you know if my idea takes into account the fundamentals of what the forum stands for? You haven't seen the design and I haven't described it in any way shape or form.
Similarly how does sending a stamped addressed envelope make you a great person?
Why should only a select few forum members and contributors be able to get hold of a burgee? I think everyone who contributes should know of the burgee and be able to order one if they wish.
I also think that if the design truly reflects the fundamentals of what the forum is all about it might even encourage new members. I am going to suggest a design which doesn't even require explanation, as soon as you see it you will know the person is a forum participant.
Henry
The forum has no fundamentals, except you cant have pink bits and you cant be other than PC.
The burgee is different. It belongs to forum members and has ethics behind it.
There is no way that the forum or me could decide folks ethics, but sending an SAE, at least meant they were taking part in the work.. Besides, I am not sure paying on line was available then, or if it was, not widely known about.
What I don't like, is your unilateral decision to change the flag. It is not your flag to change. It belongs to the forum members. In internet terms it is historic. I suggest that you first try to change the union jack, at least you have a hope there, Scotland may be leaving.
You have read the responses. The mouse is not for changing. Any attempt to change it unilaterally, will be met by me and the rest of the forum, plus you all ready have another competitor. For what, maybe three flags a month if lucky?
Prevaricate all you like, it is not about the provider or the means of purchase. But how are you going to decide who is genuine or not?? We have already got rid of one miscreant from the forum this year. I did not see you helping there.
Henry, when in a hole, stop digging.
henryf
Well-known member
Haydn.
The fact online payment wasn't available but is now is exactly why I'm putting forward suggestions. You keep defending people sending a stamped addressed envelope suggesting it is somehow essential in determining whether they are made of the right stuff but then say on line payment wasn't available then. In other words if it was you might have used it.
Well it is widely available now, so why not embrace the technology?
Unilaterally shot down? I'm not sure that's the case. There are a few of the old gang rallying around to support you. I haven't offered an alternative solution yet so there is nothing for the masses to support or reject. You are a very well respected member of this forum Haydn, seeing people rally round to support you in troubled times was testament to that and showed the depth and substance of the forum. In many ways it's easier not to suggest change because of who you are but I strongly believe there is a better solution and that it's worth investigating it.
I sincerely hope you have the depth of character to be able to consider alternatives and consider the greater good of the forum moving forward. Because it is moving forward. We may not have a pantomime but we have people going overseas on dive trips in company aboard members boats, people relocating their boats to sunnier climes because of the support available on here and we continue the information exchange, social gatherings and all the other elements which made this forum in the first place.
To suggest the current design is as perfect and unilaterally well recognised as the Union flag is somewhat arrogant. I see it as a design born out of what was available at the time. I'm trying to replace a little wooden club house with a purpose built brick structure that includes a bar, toilets, showers and which will weather the storms for the next 12 or 14 years.
I am not in the middle of a battle here, merely opening up a debate and offering suggestions.
Henry
The fact online payment wasn't available but is now is exactly why I'm putting forward suggestions. You keep defending people sending a stamped addressed envelope suggesting it is somehow essential in determining whether they are made of the right stuff but then say on line payment wasn't available then. In other words if it was you might have used it.
Well it is widely available now, so why not embrace the technology?
Unilaterally shot down? I'm not sure that's the case. There are a few of the old gang rallying around to support you. I haven't offered an alternative solution yet so there is nothing for the masses to support or reject. You are a very well respected member of this forum Haydn, seeing people rally round to support you in troubled times was testament to that and showed the depth and substance of the forum. In many ways it's easier not to suggest change because of who you are but I strongly believe there is a better solution and that it's worth investigating it.
I sincerely hope you have the depth of character to be able to consider alternatives and consider the greater good of the forum moving forward. Because it is moving forward. We may not have a pantomime but we have people going overseas on dive trips in company aboard members boats, people relocating their boats to sunnier climes because of the support available on here and we continue the information exchange, social gatherings and all the other elements which made this forum in the first place.
To suggest the current design is as perfect and unilaterally well recognised as the Union flag is somewhat arrogant. I see it as a design born out of what was available at the time. I'm trying to replace a little wooden club house with a purpose built brick structure that includes a bar, toilets, showers and which will weather the storms for the next 12 or 14 years.
I am not in the middle of a battle here, merely opening up a debate and offering suggestions.
Henry
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NickTrevethan
New member
I need a new burgee, I had one of the first runs, and loved it – loved it faded and frayed a little. Much like myself.
I think that is why the old hands are so passionate about it, and give HLB so much credit for facilitating its creation and distribution.
Since he was the one doing all the work, it was up to him as to how it was managed. And at the time – around 2002-2005, Paypal was hardly known and people still used cheques regularly.
While I agree with Henry that online payment would make it easier to get hold of one now, I really don’t want a new design – I hate rebranding at the best of time, especialy for the sake of rebranding. They are still Marathon bars to me and it will always be Jif, not Cif.
But on the other hand, the pains it took to get the burgee, made sure that only the more dedicated forumites would be bothered to obtain one. That might sound a little elitist, but I don’t think it. It reflects a degree of peserverence and a genuine desire to be part of the community.
If you gave everyone who logged on was given a burgee, you may well see them flying everywhere. But it becomes much less likely that you will have communicated, or that the other person had contributed to the forum overall.
And that for me is what the burgee represents – those people like HLB, TCM, LJS, PaulineB, Jimmie, CCScott, Byron, and the other the regular posters who, over the years, expanded my knowledge and confidence, helped with problems or outright made me laugh or cry.
That’s why the burgee means so much, that’s why it shouldn’t change, and that’s why I want one to fly again.
I think that is why the old hands are so passionate about it, and give HLB so much credit for facilitating its creation and distribution.
Since he was the one doing all the work, it was up to him as to how it was managed. And at the time – around 2002-2005, Paypal was hardly known and people still used cheques regularly.
While I agree with Henry that online payment would make it easier to get hold of one now, I really don’t want a new design – I hate rebranding at the best of time, especialy for the sake of rebranding. They are still Marathon bars to me and it will always be Jif, not Cif.
But on the other hand, the pains it took to get the burgee, made sure that only the more dedicated forumites would be bothered to obtain one. That might sound a little elitist, but I don’t think it. It reflects a degree of peserverence and a genuine desire to be part of the community.
If you gave everyone who logged on was given a burgee, you may well see them flying everywhere. But it becomes much less likely that you will have communicated, or that the other person had contributed to the forum overall.
And that for me is what the burgee represents – those people like HLB, TCM, LJS, PaulineB, Jimmie, CCScott, Byron, and the other the regular posters who, over the years, expanded my knowledge and confidence, helped with problems or outright made me laugh or cry.
That’s why the burgee means so much, that’s why it shouldn’t change, and that’s why I want one to fly again.
maybh1
Active member
I shall probably fly one of each:encouragement:
May
xx
May
xx
Cardo
Active member
Henry, I've been having a look at the preview of the new design you've come up with, and I'm just not sure it'll fly...
maybh1
Active member
Henry, I've been having a look at the preview of the new design you've come up with, and I'm just not sure it'll fly...
Perhaps I wont fly one of each then........
:ambivalence:
May
xx
henryf
Well-known member
Henry, I've been having a look at the preview of the new design you've come up with, and I'm just not sure it'll fly...
Haven't you sunk yet
Henry
hlb
RIP
Henry, the burgee is already available on line and I presume with on line payment., so why are you parroting on about that.
I am not sure I am happy with the burgee being sold by a company, as just another product, but I could not do it any more
and no one else offered. Richards offer to supply it is worth considering, at least it would give some control, maybe you have to make so many posts before your eligible for one.
I have not noticed them modernising the Union Jack every year or two and that's been around for a few hundred years.
Lets do a deal, when they modernise the Union Jack we'll jaz up the burgee.
I am not sure I am happy with the burgee being sold by a company, as just another product, but I could not do it any more
and no one else offered. Richards offer to supply it is worth considering, at least it would give some control, maybe you have to make so many posts before your eligible for one.
I have not noticed them modernising the Union Jack every year or two and that's been around for a few hundred years.
Lets do a deal, when they modernise the Union Jack we'll jaz up the burgee.
Cardo
Active member
tinkicker0
New member
In the name of a peaceful and less acrimonious solution...... Perhaps a poll is in order re changing the burgee as an initial idea without going into detail or keeping it as is?
The respondees at least have to be registered to vote.
Also the traditionalists can either fly theirs under the new one as a show of long standing loyalty to the forum and for bragging rights, or just keep on flying theirs as the exclusive one much like a defaced ensign and those in the know will know err what it is.
I will refrain from instigating the poll as it is not my place to. Many others have the right as they have put the effort in with the original design. Suggest it gets bumped to the top regularly for 3 weeks or so, as some forumites who deserve a vote may be on holiday.
The respondees at least have to be registered to vote.
Also the traditionalists can either fly theirs under the new one as a show of long standing loyalty to the forum and for bragging rights, or just keep on flying theirs as the exclusive one much like a defaced ensign and those in the know will know err what it is.
I will refrain from instigating the poll as it is not my place to. Many others have the right as they have put the effort in with the original design. Suggest it gets bumped to the top regularly for 3 weeks or so, as some forumites who deserve a vote may be on holiday.
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oGaryo
New member
It's a friggin flippin flappy flag not the holy grail ... if if looks nice on the boat, I'll be buying one off Henry as I'll be happy to continue to be associated with the forum and quite fancy having the option to adorn the boat with the old burgee or when fancy takes me, the newest burgee. Referencing the Union Jack is silly nonsense, stop it , better to think in terms of us lot as say, a club.. football clubs regularly issue news strips, scarfs etc to keep things fresh looking.. so long as folk can still identify with the club they're proud of, what's the problem?
... if if looks nice on the boat, I'll be buying one off Henry as I'll be happy to continue to be associated with the forum and quite fancy having the option to adorn the boat with the old burgee or when fancy takes me, the newest burgee. Referencing the Union Jack is silly nonsense, stop it , better to think in terms of us lot as say, a club.. football clubs regularly issue news strips, scarfs etc to keep things fresh looking.. so long as folk can still identify with the club they're proud of, what's the problem?
tinkicker0
New member
The problem is that the burgee belongs to the forum as a whole as H keeps reiterating, therefore the forum should have a say over its future. Of course if Cardo's version is the one mooted, then I don't see how the forum would be overly fussed about the change and the original would carry on being supplied.
Some people have put considerable time and effort in designing, getting the design ratified, producing and distributing the flappy flag and this effort should not be trampled aside by a unilateral decision. It MUST be the forum's decision in my book, anything less stamps mucky boots all over the efforts of the previous producers.
is the one mooted, then I don't see how the forum would be overly fussed about the change and the original would carry on being supplied.Some people have put considerable time and effort in designing, getting the design ratified, producing and distributing the flappy flag and this effort should not be trampled aside by a unilateral decision. It MUST be the forum's decision in my book, anything less stamps mucky boots all over the efforts of the previous producers.
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