Just not good enough.I can't see any reason to even discuss an anchoring ban.
Complete sellout.
STUDLAND - How much do they want???
- Thread starter SailBobSquarePants
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Just not good enough.I can't see any reason to even discuss an anchoring ban.
Complete sellout.
I hope you lot have got more guts than that otherwise I can see us being forced to adopt a seahorse & take it on holiday with us.
Seajet
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Hello Kristifer,
I can assure you the BORG are doing a lot more than just chat on these forums, and we admire the RYA's legal input when the conservation zoning etc was first suggested - something their own P.R. would do well to mention more.
However we, like a lot of boat owners who have voiced their support for our group, have been alarmed by the rapidity of the conservationist's onrush – a great many sailors, sail and power, have not realized what’s going on even now - and the lack of representation of the views of boat owners, who are quite obviously the vast majority of 'stakeholders'.
This resulted in forming the BORG - a jokey name thought up by Old Harry; well I think we are working with the best intentions of the collective, seeking if not perfection then at least saving as many good - indeed vital when considering rest and refuge - facets in seagoing life as possible.
We don't want to ban or restrict anyone, and like the vast majority of boat users care a great deal about the environment and conservation - we just don't want bureaucracy and 'little empires' taking over the places which safe good seamanship have ensured are there for us all to visit, be it for safety or even ( shock, horror ! ) pleasure.
I'm not a Cape Horn Shellback, going on about 'the old days' ( though I have a huge admiration for such people ) - the lives of my then wife and self were saved by being able to anchor in Studland Bay in a severe gale, and we visited in calmer times too, without causing any long term damage - the evidence rather supports this, ie Luftwaffe photo's of 1938 compared to now.
So why try to ban us, apart from creating a career for people who think they have the chance ?!
I can assure you the BORG are doing a lot more than just chat on these forums, and we admire the RYA's legal input when the conservation zoning etc was first suggested - something their own P.R. would do well to mention more.
However we, like a lot of boat owners who have voiced their support for our group, have been alarmed by the rapidity of the conservationist's onrush – a great many sailors, sail and power, have not realized what’s going on even now - and the lack of representation of the views of boat owners, who are quite obviously the vast majority of 'stakeholders'.
This resulted in forming the BORG - a jokey name thought up by Old Harry; well I think we are working with the best intentions of the collective, seeking if not perfection then at least saving as many good - indeed vital when considering rest and refuge - facets in seagoing life as possible.
We don't want to ban or restrict anyone, and like the vast majority of boat users care a great deal about the environment and conservation - we just don't want bureaucracy and 'little empires' taking over the places which safe good seamanship have ensured are there for us all to visit, be it for safety or even ( shock, horror ! ) pleasure.
I'm not a Cape Horn Shellback, going on about 'the old days' ( though I have a huge admiration for such people ) - the lives of my then wife and self were saved by being able to anchor in Studland Bay in a severe gale, and we visited in calmer times too, without causing any long term damage - the evidence rather supports this, ie Luftwaffe photo's of 1938 compared to now.
So why try to ban us, apart from creating a career for people who think they have the chance ?!
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oldharry
Well-known member
Seajet is right, posting on the forums is just the tip of the iceberg at present with BORG. We are working to identify who the key figures are behind the scenes, we are preparing a list of all UK sites currently being considered within known boating areas, and the level of impact the proposals may have if implemented - and there are a lot of them, including 7 key areas of the Solent
We are having to spend a lot of time identifying and contacting people in the 'right' places to get our views known. One BORG member is spending most of his spare time setting up our website, where we will post information as it becomes available. Others spend time researching, and involving the boating press who also seemed largely unaware of what is brewing.
We are all doing this in our spare time: so it is taking a little while to get it all together.
But don't be under any illusions. MPAs and MCZs WILL be set up in 2012, and by then it will be too late to object or to get things changed if we dont like them.
So bear with us if all we seem to be doing is posting the odd comment at the moment; there is a great deal more in the pipeline.
We are having to spend a lot of time identifying and contacting people in the 'right' places to get our views known. One BORG member is spending most of his spare time setting up our website, where we will post information as it becomes available. Others spend time researching, and involving the boating press who also seemed largely unaware of what is brewing.
We are all doing this in our spare time: so it is taking a little while to get it all together.
But don't be under any illusions. MPAs and MCZs WILL be set up in 2012, and by then it will be too late to object or to get things changed if we dont like them.
So bear with us if all we seem to be doing is posting the odd comment at the moment; there is a great deal more in the pipeline.
I applaud all your efforts gentlemen but think we should be attacking this at the source.(I would be interested to hear the RYA's legal efforts in this regard because surely we are talking about upholding our age old rights to navigation.Who has the right to ban this)?
Wer'nt these quangos given a to free hand in the first place?
Surely it is that that needs to be reconsidered because I do not see the Democratic process much in evidence in any of this.
We seem to be becoming bogged down in a bureaucratic process in which the "conservationists" seem to be holding all the trump cards.It is a cosmetic exorcise.
Wer'nt these quangos given a to free hand in the first place?
Surely it is that that needs to be reconsidered because I do not see the Democratic process much in evidence in any of this.
We seem to be becoming bogged down in a bureaucratic process in which the "conservationists" seem to be holding all the trump cards.It is a cosmetic exorcise.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Any of us live near the coast and have the ear of their local MP? Preferably a coalition member. Trying to get questions asked in Parliament is likely to be at least as effective as any other means of getting some sense on this subject. If you do talk to your representative, something along the lines of "The government is making itself really unpopular by trying to bring down the costs of the coastguard service, while at the same time it is squandering current and future money on setting up and policing MCZs" might be a worthwhile approach.
oldharry
Well-known member
Same thought had occured to me, hearing of the HMCG cut backs. Here is another distinctly possible line of attack.
Anybody around with inside contacts?
Going back to Kristofercolumnbus's question 'who has the right to ban this' - presumably the government thinks it has. Having got us all pretty well tied up and under control on land, they are now looking at the sea - under the reputable guise of 'conservation'
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I think we should persue this & if I had any confidence in my local MP I would certainly have a crack at it.
Saving money is certainly one of the Governments priority's is'nt it?
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Twister_Ken
Well-known member
A local councillor once told me "If I get one letter from a constituent, I can say "My constituents are concerned". If I get two I can say ""Many of my constituents are concerned". If I get three I can say ""Many of my constituents are very concerned".
So write to your MPs whether you've any confidence in them or not. The more the merrier. Personally, I'm going to try and meet mine.
So write to your MPs whether you've any confidence in them or not. The more the merrier. Personally, I'm going to try and meet mine.
oldharry
Well-known member
Still I don't want to put people off writing to their own personal MP's just because of my own bitter experience Harry.I still think there might be some good ones out there.At least I hope so!
What I'd like to know is who gave these people the power to ban anchoring in the first place & how it ever got onto the agenda!
The more you look at our coastline & way up the potential for anchors to do damage effecting ecology over all the crazier it gets it seems to me.It is just plain insane!
It is a fundamental freedom that I will never give up.
Rant over........now I am going to prepare my anti conservationist ground tackle
SailBobSquarePants
New member
WOW - when I started this thread, after a LONG night reviewing the web sites of FS, RYA, and the others, I had no idea that I would be joining Seajet and oldharry and the others on something so crucial. I now see my little thread has over 6000 page views!
I have just watched Ms. Price's video (having seen her PowerPoint presentation that first night reviewing documents), and all I can say is that we cannot do ENOUGH to make our own views known, as strongly, repetitively, and as LOUDLY as possibly. Her presentation seems to almost be apologetic - we don't need apologies, we need constructive action.
Frankly, I've never anchored in Studland, and only passed it once on a friend's boat before I bought mine. This is an issue with no particular personal relevance to me at present - but I DO believe that I will have to journey there this summer to excersize my historic right to navigation!
The reason that I am involved is that I am personally offended in the way this is being rammed down the boating community's throats - by vested interests using public money to restrict one of the UK's historic past-times. Hamstringing the children of Drake, Nelson, MacArthur and all the rest from enjoying what should be their national sport. The anchorages currently at threat are only the starting point - for once a precedent has been set, it is impossible to remove, and can only expand. And even the ones currently threatened are significant enough to cause an outcry!
It is clear from the video that we cannot PRESENTLY hope for forceful leadership from the RYA on this issue. Using our real-life names some of us have responded to Caroline Price directly and let her know our feelings on her presentation, and more succinctly the attitude it conveys for UK boaters. We can only hope that the RYA can actually develop a set of ears to hear the needs of it's constituents, especially the non-racing ones. Please notice that I said constituents, not members - as the RYA holds itself out as the voice for ALL UK recreational boaters. Fingers crossed - we would certainly welcome their strenuous opposition to these measures.
Seajet
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This is just to let all know that the fight is very much still on, we are awaiting some reponse from various contacts; and our website
www.boatownersresponsegroup.com
continues in build,and will soon have a Poll function; obviously everyone is on hold for a few days, may I say on behalf of the BORG, to all of those who have supported us thankyou, and a very Happy Christmas.
www.boatownersresponsegroup.com
continues in build,and will soon have a Poll function; obviously everyone is on hold for a few days, may I say on behalf of the BORG, to all of those who have supported us thankyou, and a very Happy Christmas.
alahol2
Well-known member
On the B.O.R.G site there is a statement... "Indeed, even if we don't count the smaller personal watercraft, the number of recreational sail and power boats in the UK numbers over 12,000".
I appreciate the figure is difficult to ascertain but that seems exceedingly low. I'd bet that 150K - 200K is closer to the truth. And thats just coastal, add inland waters and you will get another jump in numbers.
Edit. Just found this http://www.britishmarine.co.uk/upload_pub/2027.pdf that reckons on 49,000 marina berths. Add moorings, trailer sailors, private berths etc.
I appreciate the figure is difficult to ascertain but that seems exceedingly low. I'd bet that 150K - 200K is closer to the truth. And thats just coastal, add inland waters and you will get another jump in numbers.
Edit. Just found this http://www.britishmarine.co.uk/upload_pub/2027.pdf that reckons on 49,000 marina berths. Add moorings, trailer sailors, private berths etc.
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Seajet
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Alahol,
Don't know where that figure came from, very likely a typo' - as you say could do with a '0' added, but we obviously want and need to be as accurate as possible, so Ta' for pointing it out so quickly, it will be corrected ( though Hols may delay a bit ).
Thanks too for checking out the site, Happy Christmas !
sj
Don't know where that figure came from, very likely a typo' - as you say could do with a '0' added, but we obviously want and need to be as accurate as possible, so Ta' for pointing it out so quickly, it will be corrected ( though Hols may delay a bit ).
Thanks too for checking out the site, Happy Christmas !
sj
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oldharry
Well-known member
Definitely a typo, Chichester harbour reckon they have 16,000 on their books alone - including dinghies kyaks etc.
Seajet
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robertj,
You may find plenty to read here !
BORG have been invited to attend a meeting on this shortly...
You may find plenty to read here !
BORG have been invited to attend a meeting on this shortly...
Sgeir
Well-known member
IE, you'll sit on your jacksie criticising everyone else while not bothering your arse. Don't know why people bother to reply to your troll posts. Damn; I've just done it......
Seajet
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robertj,
For your dad;
This is all really happening, not just an abstract idea, unless we boat users get together and stop it NOW.
These Marine Conservation Zones WILL be enforced, with very hefty fines for transgressors, Old Harry was left in no doubt about that after his first meeting with the MMO.
Your dad will probably ask, " how the hell can the government justify the cost of patrol RIB's and all the staff & infrastructure to support them, at a time when schools, NHS,care homes & defence are being savagely cut back ? "
That's everyone's first question, it certainly was mine when I spoke to Caroline Price of the RYA.
The answer is that this is an EU Directive, so the government ( doesn't matter which party ) would be fined such a colossal amount if they don't 'set up marine conservation around 30% of our coast' that the patrol / enforcement will be cheaper ( it also happens to mean a lot of nice jobs and little empires ).
The real problems for boat users started when the government looked around for who to organise this, and mistakenly thought conservation should be in the hands of conservationists.
It was Christmas come early for them, and they promptly carved up the coastline to suit their own agenda, with no representation sought from boat users whatsoever - but plenty of input from divers, who would like to ban boats.
It's no coincidence that ex-anchorages without boats lend themselves to commercial dive centres...
This point has been put across strongly by the BORG, and we will continue to do so.
For your dad;
This is all really happening, not just an abstract idea, unless we boat users get together and stop it NOW.
These Marine Conservation Zones WILL be enforced, with very hefty fines for transgressors, Old Harry was left in no doubt about that after his first meeting with the MMO.
Your dad will probably ask, " how the hell can the government justify the cost of patrol RIB's and all the staff & infrastructure to support them, at a time when schools, NHS,care homes & defence are being savagely cut back ? "
That's everyone's first question, it certainly was mine when I spoke to Caroline Price of the RYA.
The answer is that this is an EU Directive, so the government ( doesn't matter which party ) would be fined such a colossal amount if they don't 'set up marine conservation around 30% of our coast' that the patrol / enforcement will be cheaper ( it also happens to mean a lot of nice jobs and little empires ).
The real problems for boat users started when the government looked around for who to organise this, and mistakenly thought conservation should be in the hands of conservationists.
It was Christmas come early for them, and they promptly carved up the coastline to suit their own agenda, with no representation sought from boat users whatsoever - but plenty of input from divers, who would like to ban boats.
It's no coincidence that ex-anchorages without boats lend themselves to commercial dive centres...
This point has been put across strongly by the BORG, and we will continue to do so.
Seajet
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Today - New Years' Day appropriately - has seen the announcement that anchoring at Studland Bay 'will be allowed for safe navigation'.
While this is an important concession, we need to keep fighting, to ensure no stupid restrictions are inflicted; and the fight has only just begun for the rest of the coast, and moorings within our harbours; the latter increasingly important as many boat owners are feeling themselves either disaffected or priced out of marinas...
While this is an important concession, we need to keep fighting, to ensure no stupid restrictions are inflicted; and the fight has only just begun for the rest of the coast, and moorings within our harbours; the latter increasingly important as many boat owners are feeling themselves either disaffected or priced out of marinas...
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