simple question - what is the most dangerous thing on a boat?

[JumbleDuck]

How many of you posting and looking at this thread, DO NOT have gas alarms on your boat?

I DO NOT have a gas alarm on my boat. Well, actually I do, but the bilge sensor got flooded and is therefore, I presume, dead, so I don't bother to switch the thing on. It's a Dual Watch one for which, last time I checked, spares were not available, so instead I'm careful about turning the gas off at the bottle when not in use,

 

[Elessar]

I DO NOT have a gas alarm on my boat. Well, actually I do, but the bilge sensor got flooded and is therefore, I presume, dead, so I don't bother to switch the thing on. It's a Dual Watch one for which, last time I checked, spares were not available, so instead I'm careful about turning the gas off at the bottle when not in use,

Easy to test it with a lighter.

A new alarm is only £100. Cheap for what it potentially does.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Easy to test it with a lighter.

A new alarm is only £100. Cheap for what it potentially does.

I expect I'll get around to it one day, but I'm happy with reasonable precautions for the moment. I have a solid-fuel stove installed but not yet fired up and so carbon monoxide detection is rather higher on my list.

 

[Greenheart]

Easy to test it with a lighter...

Easy to test whether the alarm works? Or whether there's gas in the bilge?!

 

[xeitosaphil]

I have been looking at this post with interest as it seems to regularly crop up. There always seems to be those who like it and those who don’t, and basically I think it’s down to personal choice? I have gas and have had it on my last two boats for 15 years in total, dare I say it without incident.

Doesn’t seem to be a problem if used sensibly and is monitored for leaks.

I do have a fixed routine with its use though. I isolate after use at the Galley and if leaving the boat for any significant time, I light the gas at cooker, but turn off supply at bottle thereby burning off any gas still left in the supply pipes. I must admit to leaving the supply live to the cooker but isolated when on passage, for a brew.

There is a Vetus gas monitor which is on a permanent supply which can be set to permanently monitor for leaks when on board, and intermittent monitoring when boat is left for any time to conserve battery drain. Sensor is in a plastic box in an aid to waterproof connections in bilge, with the actual sensor exposed.
I suppose though with a bigger boat and more significantly longer pipe runs, the anxiety of possibility of leaks may increase, but better monitoring / solenoid shut off valves and bubble leak monitors may alleviate these anxieties if at all they exist.

 

[Searush]

There are thousands, maybe millions when you include all the ones inland, fitted with gas cookers & heaters, some have been around for over 50 years without problems. Now & again one goes bang, usually traceable to user behaviour, the odds against a gas explosion must astronomically low. If you are frightened of gas, that's fine leave it alone, but don't go trying to tell me it is "dangerous" when it so obviously is a miniscule risk statistically.

 

[JumbleDuck]

There are thousands, maybe millions when you include all the ones inland, fitted with gas cookers & heaters, some have been around for over 50 years without problems. Now & again one goes bang, usually traceable to user behaviour, the odds against a gas explosion must astronomically low. If you are frightened of gas, that's fine leave it alone, but don't go trying to tell me it is "dangerous" when it so obviously is a miniscule risk statistically.

Hear hear.

 

[PhillM]

I too have been lurking,

I don't have gas, but the boat wasn't designed to have it. Retro fit would be a pita. So I use meths and am very happy with it. I know it's risks and work around them. I'd worry about gas on my MAB but can see the sense of it on a awb. So I guess I'm trying to say there is a case for both approaches, it just depends on your boat age and design.

 

[Searush]

I too have been lurking,

I don't have gas, but the boat wasn't designed to have it. Retro fit would be a pita. So I use meths and am very happy with it. I know it's risks and work around them. I'd worry about gas on my MAB but can see the sense of it on a awb. So I guess I'm trying to say there is a case for both approaches, it just depends on your boat age and design.

That makes sense.

 

[Koeketiene]

simple question - what is the most dangerous thing on a boat?

A timetable

 

[dragonvc]

Gas can bite if maintenance not up to scratch.On a delivery trip 2002 with new to owner Sadler29 of 1982 ish vintage SW 5-7 Dartmouth to Falmouth went in to Salcombe ate ashore used cooker in morning for a brew set off early towards Falmouth,we must have had a brew on the way but very limited use.Arrived Falmouth 11.30 pm desperate for hot meal and warm up turned cooker on at gas bottle and fairly quickly smelt gas as running water into the kettle checked out installation no undue gas smell in bottle locker followed gas line very strong smell of gas in cockpit locker and I felt gas coming out of pinhole in copper gas pipe that had corroded close to a clip.We decided to ventilate the cabin thoroughly after turning off gas then connected gas bottle to flexible hose off the cooker.Checked for smell of gas close to cabin sole having pumped hard on bilge pump.One crew member set light to cooker while the other two in cockpit,we all survived and had a much needed meal and hot drink,risky but got away with it.To further add insult the genoa furling gear had broken as well.If you cannot smell gas you need a gas detector ,correct gas bottle discipline had partially saved the day.At what point had the gas point leaked?if the gas bottle had not been turned off would turning on the engine have caused a large flair visible from miles away.

 

[Seajet]

I too have been lurking,

I don't have gas, but the boat wasn't designed to have it. Retro fit would be a pita. So I use meths and am very happy with it. I know it's risks and work around them. I'd worry about gas on my MAB but can see the sense of it on a awb. So I guess I'm trying to say there is a case for both approaches, it just depends on your boat age and design.

Hmmm, the original gas installation on the A22 was a 907 bottle hung directly below the cooker as a gymbal weight.

I'm not too sure if these are legal, suspect they are to sell, at least; we never fancied the idea.

When my father and I completed my boat we had the gas in a cockpit locker, which we got away with as always very strict about turning the regulator on for use then straight off again - we saw a gas explosion afloat before getting the Anderson.

I long since made a ventilated locker in the cockpit as an extension to the bridgedeck, it works well for me as a handy seat and locker for buckets, winch handles etc too, and the flexible hoses are changed every year.

 

[FWB]

Let's try to get this into some sort of friendly perspective
There are I suppose three types of galley stoves available; Gas, Origo(meths) and Taylors(paraffin). A fourth is the Wallas diesel, which is very easy to use but some may be put off by the electronics. So four types.
The simplest is probably the Origo--I've never used one so am open to opinions. Gas appeals because it's like being at home, and the Taylors look very complicated.
Gas is dangerous on a boat. If it were not so, bottles wouldn't have to be kept on deck in a drained locker and alarms and solenoid valves wouldn't be required. There have been fatalities and serious injuries, but they are very few compared to the number of installations.
Taylors types are more expensive and require knowledge of how to use them (unlike gas).
These stoves are very easy to use and will not flare up if used correctly-- which is not a difficult thing to learn. The principle is to preheat the burners so that the paraffin is vapourised when introduced. It's a simple process, preheat with 15ml of meths in a well below the burner, wait for the meths to go out then turn on the tap and light just as you would a gas stove. During the preheat process, which takes four minutes, put a kettle on to contain any flames and heat some water. It's safe, no alarms are required and the paraffin( odourless) and meths are easy to obtain and store.
Gas may appear to be more convenient but in reality a paraffin stove is just as easy to use.
I suppose the Wallas diesel can stick it's tongue out at all of the others and say that's it's the safest of all, personally I'm wary of the electronics but possibly misplaced anxiety. I had the choice when I commissioned the boat but discounted the Wallas.

 

[Searush]

Let's try to get this into some sort of friendly perspective
There are I suppose three types of galley stoves available; Gas, Origo(meths) and Taylors(paraffin). A fourth is the Wallas diesel, which is very easy to use but some may be put off by the electronics. So four types.
The simplest is probably the Origo--I've never used one so am open to opinions. Gas appeals because it's like being at home, and the Taylors look very complicated.
Gas is dangerous on a boat. If it were not so, bottles wouldn't have to be kept on deck in a drained locker and alarms and solenoid valves wouldn't be required. There have been fatalities and serious injuries, but they are very few compared to the number of installations.
Taylors types are more expensive and require knowledge of how to use them (unlike gas).
These stoves are very easy to use and will not flare up if used correctly-- which is not a difficult thing to learn. The principle is to preheat the burners so that the paraffin is vapourised when introduced. It's a simple process, preheat with 15ml of meths in a well below the burner, wait for the meths to go out then turn on the tap and light just as you would a gas stove. During the preheat process, which takes four minutes, put a kettle on to contain any flames and heat some water. It's safe, no alarms are required and the paraffin( odourless) and meths are easy to obtain and store.
Gas may appear to be more convenient but in reality a paraffin stove is just as easy to use.
I suppose the Wallas diesel can stick it's tongue out at all of the others and say that's it's the safest of all, personally I'm wary of the electronics but possibly misplaced anxiety. I had the choice when I commissioned the boat but discounted the Wallas.

Gas is dangerous on boats is it? And that's why we have gas safety recommendations - to make it SAFE, yet you still think it is dangerous? Maybe it is, if you have a poor installation, badly maintained & poorly managed & used, but there are not that many boats that treat it in such a cavalier manner. Cars are dangerous when driven by drunks, or faster than the capability of the driver in busy locations, or simply carelessly. Far more dangerous than gas in boats as hundreds are killed every year in the UK alone by badly handled cars yet we walk, ride & drive the roads everyday confident in our own ability to identify & avoid such rogue vehicles.

Your assumptions are poor & seem based on fear, leading to what appear to me to be unsound conclusions. Total deaths from gas explosions - in ANY location in the UK is typically less than five a year & not more than 13 in any of the last 18 years, for the two most recent years records are available, 2 people died in 2011/2 & just 1 in 2012/3. And that includes every boat, house, flat, office, workshop & factory in the country that uses mains or LPG. How risky is that? Oh, not very really is it?
stats here; http://www.co-gassafety.co.uk/downloads/2014/Statistics Sheet for press pack 2014.pdf

As Dylan often points out the most dangerous part of sailing is usually the journey to/from the boat. And that is even more so if you include a dinghy trip to get aboard. Gas is utterly insignificant as a threat to safety if you follow the simple safety guidelines published TO KEEP US SAFE!

 

[Greenheart]

Gas is dangerous on a boat...There have been fatalities and serious injuries, but they are very few compared to the number of installations.

Taylors types...require knowledge of how to use them (unlike gas). These stoves...will not flare up if used correctly...It's a simple process, preheat with 15ml of meths in a well below the burner, wait for the meths to go out then turn on the tap and light just as you would a gas stove...takes four minutes...

With respect Foeu, did you intend that to sound so lukewarm about paraffin? You say gas is dangerous, despite the amazing rarity of accidents...while paraffin will not flare up if it is used correctly? Surely it's conspicuous from statistics that gas, (which needs no specialist know-how) doesn't cause danger if it's used correctly...and nor does it require splashing about with meths for several minutes to get it up and running.

I know nothing of paraffin except that my dad mentions having used it during the war. It may well be terrific stuff, but if ultimately it's just another flammable, containable fuel which requires a little care to prevent disasters, I doubt it makes an overwhelming case for itself, above other fuels available to yachtsmen.

The thread was about danger...surely anything operating at high temperatures needs a bit of care - just as any heating/cooking process attempted without care may result in injury. I'm not sure any type of fuel is necessarily dangerous - so perhaps, the last 50 or 60 posts belong under the title "Which fuel type is safest in the hands of the careless?"

 

[Woodlouse]

Gas is dangerous on boats is it? And that's why we have gas safety recommendations - to make it SAFE, yet you still think it is dangerous? Maybe it is, if you have a poor installation, badly maintained & poorly managed & used, but there are not that many boats that treat it in such a cavalier manner. Cars are dangerous when driven by drunks, or faster than the capability of the driver in busy locations, or simply carelessly. Far more dangerous than gas in boats as hundreds are killed every year in the UK alone by badly handled cars yet we walk, ride & drive the roads everyday confident in our own ability to identify & avoid such rogue vehicles.

Your assumptions are poor & seem based on fear, leading to what appear to me to be unsound conclusions. Total deaths from gas explosions - in ANY location in the UK is typically less than five a year & not more than 13 in any of the last 18 years, for the two most recent years records are available, 2 people died in 2011/2 & just 1 in 2012/3. And that includes every boat, house, flat, office, workshop & factory in the country that uses mains or LPG. How risky is that? Oh, not very really is it?
stats here; http://www.co-gassafety.co.uk/downloads/2014/Statistics Sheet for press pack 2014.pdf

As Dylan often points out the most dangerous part of sailing is usually the journey to/from the boat. And that is even more so if you include a dinghy trip to get aboard. Gas is utterly insignificant as a threat to safety if you follow the simple safety guidelines published TO KEEP US SAFE!

You contradict yourself a little with that post. You maintain gas is safe, but you then go on to say that if mishandled it's dangerous, but it's safe as long as you follow the instructions. There is no denying that gas has the potential to be very dangerous. Safety regulations are there because the danger is recognised and are intended to keep the danger to an absolute minimum, but the potential will always be there whilst you have a pressurised cylinder of flammable gas on board.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Hmmm, the original gas installation on the A22 was a 907 bottle hung directly below the cooker as a gymbal weight.

I'm not too sure if these are legal, suspect they are to sell, at least; we never fancied the idea.

I had one of those on my last boat. Great system. I have a spare set of burners and jets for the Camping Gaz stove, if anyone is interested.

 

[JumbleDuck]

You contradict yourself a little with that post. You maintain gas is safe, but you then go on to say that if mishandled it's dangerous, but it's safe as long as you follow the instructions. There is no denying that gas has the potential to be very dangerous. Safety regulations are there because the danger is recognised and are intended to keep the danger to an absolute minimum, but the potential will always be there whilst you have a pressurised cylinder of flammable gas on board.

That's why we distinguish between hazard and risk.

 

[mihtjel]

This has been a very interesting thread, in particular the last few pages. The battle between cookers that "only very occasionally blow the boat up", and those that "will only cause problems when flaring up if the boat interior is flammable".

Most dangerous thing on my boat's probably the skipper. Second most dangerous the crew. Mainsheet and boom are quite high up there, having already caused quite a lot of pain at times, as are mooring lines and winches.

Way down the line of danger are fire hazards, sharp (or dull) knives and keel bolts. Lots of precautions are taken against these becoming a serious danger - unlike getting a hand stuck in a line on a winch.

 

[Elessar]

Easy to test whether the alarm works? Or whether there's gas in the bilge?!

Both! Would only recommend the former though.