Selling-up Or Sailing North. Is the British Overseas Liveaboard A Dying Breed - If so why❓

[nortada]

To start the ball rolling. Earlier this year we sold the boat in Portugal, headed back to the Old Country and will confine future liveaboard activities to the summer months in local northern waters.

Our primary reason was advancing years, deteriorating health and injuries, which were combining to make living onboard increasingly untenable. Nearly 2 years continuously afloat, courtesy of covid, got us thinking and realising that our current lifestyle (summers in the UK, in our static caravan or afloat on the UK cruiser and winters afloat in Southern Europe) could not last for ever.?

Our thinking revolved around settling permanently in Portugal or back the UK but we continued to procrastinate until an unfortunate injury, just before last Christmas, forced the decision to sell up and return permanently to Walton-on-the-Naze.

However, we were mindful of other issues:- sell while the market was buoyant, increasing uncertainty of life in the EU as Brits (even though we hold Portuguese Residency), problems moving between countries, family pressures, Orcas etc. Increasing costs of living on a fixed income (running 2 boats don’t come cheap) and the possibility of future lock-downs were other considerations.

We ere also increasingly aware that advancing years were taking their toll and sailing a 38 footer was becoming increasingly demanding (OK when everything is going well but on a dark and stormy night ?) so we should jump before we were pushedWE JUMPED?

From a number of threads in this forum it is increasingly apparent that some of the long-term stars are making similar decisions to sell-up and it is not confined to just us boaters, residents on shore and motor home owners are making similar moves.

Some plan to become swallows and just to rent and return to warmer climates for some of the winter; others will go on cruises.??

So what are your thoughts for your future and if you are giving up your current lifestyle, why.

 

[jordanbasset]

We sold up in 2020, Brexit made it too difficult for the lifestyle we wanted.

 

[AndrewB]

Not much sign of Brit liveaboards reducing here in Corfu, and other nationalities (increasingly east European) are moving in.

I suspect this might be a consequence of the forum demographic. This type of forum is now 25 years old, something our generation grew into, but 'social media' has moved on. Probably there are not so many regular forum members of early retirement age now.

 

[Graham376]

To start the ball rolling. Earlier this year we sold the boat in Portugal,

It seems decent boats are selling well as yours did but not sure who's buying. Would be interested in hearing who you received enquiries from - locals keeping boat in EU, UK residents keeping it in EU to liveaboard or just holidays, etc.?

I have no idea what the future holds, the boat has become a floating holiday home. It moves off the mooring occasionally with day guests on board or for a few weeks down to Gib or up the Guadiana, we're no longer interested in day sailing. I'm finding with increasing age, annual maintenance has become a chore with more frequent beer breaks and sometimes feel like selling. OTOH, we enjoy the social scene with many friends ashore and on boats and, what would we do without it? Can't just sit in an apartment all day reading the paper. Heading back on Tuesday, hear it's in the 40s on deck in the sun.

 

[nortada]

It seems decent boats are selling well as yours did but not sure who's buying. Would be interested in hearing who you received enquiries from - locals keeping boat in EU, UK residents keeping it in EU to liveaboard or just holidays, etc.?

I have no idea what the future holds, the boat has become a floating holiday home. It moves off the mooring occasionally with day guests on board or for a few weeks down to Gib or up the Guadiana, we're no longer interested in day sailing. I'm finding with increasing age, annual maintenance has become a chore with more frequent beer breaks and sometimes feel like selling. OTOH, we enjoy the social scene with many friends ashore and on boats and, what would we do without it? Can't just sit in an apartment all day reading the paper. Heading back on Tuesday, hear it's in the 40s on deck in the sun.

Our boat was sold before it even came on the open market to a Portuguese company that specialises in major updates and refurbishments and then sell on. In good nick the boat was 24 years old with mostly original gear and (by todays standards) limited electronics.

Our asking price was realistic so they met it with no quibble.

There was plenty of other interest but the lack of hassle made the company offer more attractive - when through without a hitch and minimum fuss. The Company did their own survey before making their offer.

Our Freeman Special power cruiser in the UK is an alternative social centre to home. We sleep on board as suits.

Guests enjoy the novelty and supported by a powerful cuddly, the younger members of the family love it - no speed limits in Harwich Bay?

Designed for northern climates, we hope to use it throughout the year but still plan to vacate the UK post New Year to avoid the worst of the winter.

Living close to the Naze Tower we are well above sea level but surrounded by the Backwaters and approaches to Harwich/Felixstowe so the views are amazing. We have easy access to the Rivers Stour, Orwell and Deben, with plenty of sheltered cruising.

So far so good.

 

[Poignard]

We sold up in 2020, Brexit made it too difficult for the lifestyle we wanted.

Careful now!

 

[Yngmar]

Lots of first time boat owners cruising around the Med. Not sure what nationality they are anymore, flags are meaningless now. British flags are getting rare, but that's just because most of them fly Polish or Irish or whatever flags now, so they just don't immediately look British until you talk to them and are given the choice between tea and gin & tonic

Most of the Brits who wintered with us in Sicily have gone to the Brexit refuge of Turkey, which is definitely very much fuller now.

 

[Clancy Moped]

As to your 'why' question, I think you know, lack of freedom of movement.

 

[srm]

Decided to move here before the referendum but we were living on board then. Boat is in marina with British flag as customs eventually accepted it was EU goods in free circulation. We are living ashore in a house with some land that we renovated from a semi derelict shell. Its unlikely that I would be able to buy back into the UK now and enjoy the standard of living that I have here on my pension and am very comfortable with that. As an example have just ordered my winter heating fuel for '23/'24. A truck load of logs for 104 euro that I will stack and keep to dry over two summers.

 

[Tranona]

As to your 'why' question, I think you know, lack of freedom of movement.

While that will be one reason, but more likely as a barrier to new people. The cycle has been going on for years. The trend to liveaboard and particularly to move to the Med started in a big way around 40 years ago - people getting more wealthy, good pensions, entrepreneurs cashing in their chips and so on. At the same time boats became available that were suitable for living on and cruising. For UK buyers Moodys Westerlys DIY Colvics and so on. The peak was probably around the turn of the century up to the financial crash. Inevitably people from that era are reaching old age and finding the comfort of the UK attractive for the last few years.

We started planning our early retirement/liveaboard in 1998 when we were in our mid 50s and achieved it partly by 2008, but health circumstances changed and abandoned in 2010. During that time we noticed the steady increase in the number of the early "adopters" moving back and now the Med, particularly the eastern part has many semi abandoned older boats taken there by those sorts of people.

Doubt the UK will be a source of many new roving liveaboards, but there will still be a significant number buying boats to use in the Med while still living in the UK or having residence in the EU.

 

[Wansworth]

Decided to move here before the referendum but we were living on board then. Boat is in marina with British flag as customs eventually accepted it was EU goods in free circulation. We are living ashore in a house with some land that we renovated from a semi derelict shell. Its unlikely that I would be able to buy back into the UK now and enjoy the standard of living that I have here on my pension and am very comfortable with that. As an example have just ordered my winter heating fuel for '23/'24. A truck load of logs for 104 euro that I will stack and keep to dry over two summers.

Wow that’s veycheap why is there so much wood to burn on the island and what type is it

 

[Clancy Moped]

While that will be one reason, but more likely as a barrier to new people. The cycle has been going on for years. The trend to liveaboard and particularly to move to the Med started in a big way around 40 years ago - people getting more wealthy, good pensions, entrepreneurs cashing in their chips and so on. At the same time boats became available that were suitable for living on and cruising. For UK buyers Moodys Westerlys DIY Colvics and so on. The peak was probably around the turn of the century up to the financial crash. Inevitably people from that era are reaching old age and finding the comfort of the UK attractive for the last few years.

We started planning our early retirement/liveaboard in 1998 when we were in our mid 50s and achieved it partly by 2008, but health circumstances changed and abandoned in 2010. During that time we noticed the steady increase in the number of the early "adopters" moving back and now the Med, particularly the eastern part has many semi abandoned older boats taken there by those sorts of people.

Doubt the UK will be a source of many new roving liveaboards, but there will still be a significant number buying boats to use in the Med while still living in the UK or having residence in the EU.

We started our liveaboard life at the ages of 34 and 35 and did it for 18 years. The demographic didn't change at all during that time, and as far as I can see only one other thing has impacted on that community.

 

[nortada]

As to your 'why' question, I think you know, lack of freedom of movement.

From observation, many liveaboards seldom move far from their home port and even more rarely sail to other countries. Often they have residency in their host country so for them, lack of freedom of movement is not an issue.

Yet to hit but I think lack of funds and an income that will keep pace with inflation will become an increasing factor, both to leaving the UK and remaining abroad.

 

[Clancy Moped]

From observation, many liveaboards seldom move far from their home port and even more rarely sail to other countries. Often they have residency in their host country so for them, lack of freedom of movement is not an issue.

Yet to hit but I think lack of funds and an income that will keep pace with inflation will become an increasing factor, both to leaving the UK and remaining abroad.

We've wintered in Spain,Corsica, Sicily, Turkey and Greece, so I guess our experiences are different.

 

[jordanbasset]

We started our liveaboard life at the ages of 34 and 35 and did it for 18 years. The demographic didn't change at all during that time, and as far as I can see only one other thing has impacted on that community.

Agree, for us we liked to stay 4-5 months in Greece in the Summer snd 4-5 months in Spain in the winter. Residency was not an option as you needed to spend at least 6 months in country to keep it.
It used to be do easy

 

[Wansworth]

I imagine that pre the big B mentally a voyager would fit out and make arrangements for renting or selling a home in the Uk,or not but the only restrictions were the seasons and personal finance .The idea you could just sail away,all that seems to be now not so easy and the present financial and situation in thr Ukraine puts a different light freedom

 

[nortada]

We've wintered in Spain,Corsica, Sicily, Turkey and Greece, so I guess our experiences are different.

I said many not all, possibly you are an exception that proves the rule.

My observations are based on time in Iberia, where more and more visitors appear to travel less and less.

 

[Clancy Moped]

I said many not all, possibly you are an exception that proves the rule.

I'm not an exception at all, I've met many who are on the move, now that's been curtailed.

 

[srm]

Wow that’s veycheap why is there so much wood to burn on the island and what type is it

Cryptomeria/Japanese Cedar, a fast growing softwood grown on the island for the local market. Its a lot cheaper than imported pine or harder woods so used by the building industry and also looks very good with coloured grain when planed and clear lacquered. Used it for all our custom made kitchen fittings and internal doors as this was probably cheaper than the imported veneered fibreboard units that do not last very long and can grow mold in the humid atmosphere. The island's sawmill cuts and splits the unusable timber for firewood as otherwise they have to pay to dispose of it; not being allowed to burn it in the open.

I also get some fyre, another fast growing local variety that self seeds and grows like a weed. This came from friends who had to cut their trees back and a bit off my own land, though being an evergreen broadleaf it takes two to three years to dry enough for burning.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I could write an SA on the subject .
I started cruising at 25 Admitlly part time with young children on a 25 footer .
By the time I was 40 kids gone I spend more time cruising all over Europe then being back home working just 5 months of each year .
The last 15 years its been non stop cruising,
I personally prefer to call us cruisers rather then livaboard because that's what we do , only spending a few months over winter to recover , socialising and do job in a marina.

But the last few years are winter months have Been getting longer and longer last winter we was in the marina for an whole 6 months, this isn't to our liking.
Brexit made very little difference to us my other half is Dutch and I found ways around it ,
Covid did restrict us a bit but we still manage to sail through it after the first blow was over.

As many know we also sold up a lot quicker then we wanted ,
We plain another year cruising (2022) ,
we tho of testing the market but before we knew what had happen the boat was sold,
We do both regret it now, a lot of years and money was spend getting the boat just as we wanted it.

The plain was to move back to the UK and back on land next year buying a much smaller boat to cruise Northern Europe thought the summer months starting 2023.
Returning back to the UK we found we had a few problems with my partner being Dutch.
( much easier and less stressful cruising)
Add to that we was missing living on board ,
So within a few weeks we brought another boat ,
And guess what ?
YES we cruising again in Northern Europe ,
Happy as Larry.
Holding my hands up we don't plain to live on board over the winter months anymore ,
we have plenty of offers from cruisers to move into their houses all over the UK and Europe even move on to boats in the Med while there away if we want too.
But moving back into my house is our plain.
We shall worry about that come Oct or Nov.
So that's us .

But to go back to the question being ask.
I don't think Brexit has stop people from living on board ,
Most die hard just move from place to place ,
newcomers are finding it harder but very quickly finding ways around it although my experience of most newcomers don't last more then a couple of years anyway so not really a problem.
The people that's been hit the hardest are tho who just wanted to stay put in one country like Greece , Spain , Portugal.
Age and health is the biggest decider for selling up when it come to long term cruisers although we know quite a few in they 80s and two touching 90 who have no intention of moving on land although if the truth was known it probably because finance don't allow it , shame really .

When it comes to liveaboads brits are just a small number ,
Our cruising community is stress from right across the world,
So we brit are not the only once with the 90/180 problem and its not just in Europe,
but I not come across one cruisers who said they would give up living on board because of it,
Most people have found away around it , be it moving around, flying out for a while, getting residence or just keeping under the radar.
Many here say it going to get harder with new Reg coming in and I'm in no doubt it will but where there a will there a way as they say and the die hards are very good at finding ways of sorting problems.
I think what Nortada finding is people who are finding heath and age is making it hard for them to continue the life style and moving for a more comfortably live back on land.

As for us if you ask me 20 or even 2 years ago would I consider moving off a boat I would had said they need to carry me off in a box , now not too sure if a box is needed ,
may be just another 10 years of part time cruising is what the doctor ordered.
We now cruising in a small Bene 36 ,less room to what we had on our Moody 42 but a lot less junk although it seems to be filling up by the day.
Since we Brough our new boat to us in The end of May we manage to cruised a small part of France , Belgium and now doing the standing up mast route in the Netherlands , very different to what we use to but hey cruising is cruising and as someone printed on a T-SHIRT,
Better a bad day on the water then a good day in a office .