Schengen 90/180 post Brexit (again... I know!)

[Ningaloo]

'even is this is not explicitly stated on the document'
so how do you know you have a "tourist" class visa

Because that is what you applied for?
Schengen Visa - Comprehensive information about Europe Visa (schengenvisainfo.com)

 

[nortada]

When a third country passport holder applies for a (tourist) visa to any EU country, they are generally issued with a Schengen visa. The application is made to an individual country, usually the country of entry into the Schengen block, but it is not restricted to that country and grants access to all the countries in Schengen. The 90/180 restriction applies to the block as a whole.

So, an EU country, issue can a Schengen visa, giving access to the whole of the Schengen Zone Clearly a way for Brit boaties to go next year.

Must admit, I have never seen a Schengen visa and wasn't aware that the EU could issue visas. Thought they were the preserve of individual countries

I do know before US and Canadians sailors visit Portugal, usually they have gone to the Portuguese Embassy in their own country to get the paperwork (visa?) to be in Portugal.

In the past there have been problems when they have pitched up in Portugal without the correct paperwork. Initially it was suggested that they would have to return 'home' to visit the Portuguese Embassy there to get a visa. Makings of a big pain‼

Being Portugal, a work around could often be found and rather returning to the States, some visited the Portuguese Embassy in the UK. Much closer.

Don't know how they fared when moving on to other Schengen Zone countries.

 

[Ningaloo]

My initial comment on this thread was that I did not understand why this is STILL being discussed as (I thought) it was all well understood what we were giving up in the referendum.
I am frankly staggered that a UK/EU citizen, especially one who spends an extended time in an EU country, does not know about Schengen. The whole point of Schengen is that it is a border free zone. EU citizens can travel between member states without any customs or immigration control.
The UK opted out of Schengen so still had control over borders.
In general it is NOT POSSIBLE to get a single country (tourist) visa unless you want to take advantage of the extensions I mentioned earlier. Your USA friends will have applied to the Portuguese Embassy (and will probably have had to be there in person for an interview) to get their visa, but it will be a Schengen visa.
Fortunately for us (UK) the EU has agreed that we will NOT have to apply for a visa in advance but this will be granted (maybe more a travel permit than a visa?) on arrival at the border. From 2022 I understand there will be an electronic "visa" that will need to be applied for online.
Previously a UK citizen had the right to enter any EU country.
Now that is at the discretion of the immigration officer when you arrive. If you have a criminal record, do not have a return ticket, do not have medical insurance, or cannot demonstrate sufficient funds to support yourself, you may not be granted entry.

 

[nortada]

Because that is what you applied for?
Schengen Visa - Comprehensive information about Europe Visa (schengenvisainfo.com)

Many thanks for the link.

So as opposed to just applying for a visa; you explain you reasons and apply for a specific type of visa?

 

[nortada]

My initial comment on this thread was that I did not understand why this is STILL being discussed as (I thought) it was all well understood what we were giving up in the referendum.

I am frankly staggered that a UK/EU citizen, especially one who spends an extended time in an EU country, does not know about Schengen.

The whole point of Schengen is that it is a border free zone. EU citizens can travel between member states without any customs or immigration control.

The UK opted out of Schengen so still had control over borders.

In general it is NOT POSSIBLE to get a single country (tourist) visa unless you want to take advantage of the extensions I mentioned earlier.

Your USA friends will have applied to the Portuguese Embassy (and will probably have had to be there in person for an interview) to get their visa, but it will be a Schengen visa.

Fortunately for us (UK) the EU has agreed that we will NOT have to apply for a visa in advance but this will be granted (maybe more a travel permit than a visa?) on arrival at the border.

From 2022 I understand there will be an electronic "visa" that will need to be applied for online.

Previously a UK citizen had the right to enter any EU country.

Now that is at the discretion of the immigration officer when you arrive.

If you have a criminal record, do not have a return ticket, do not have medical insurance, or cannot demonstrate sufficient funds to support yourself, you may not be granted entry.

Please excuse, my intrusion, editing your message (above) but it makes it easier to follow.

If I am the UK/EU citizen, who staggers you, please rest assured, as others will know, I am a UK citizen but a Portuguese resident (citizenship is a very different animal), who has a reasonably comprehensive understanding of Schengen Rules and many other Brexit issues, as they affect me.

Nevertheless, I am always keen to extend my knowledge through others' thoughts and experiences and hope that these discussions are of value to others; as is your advice on the problems experienced by US visitors, not friends, and other thoughts.

ps Where is Ningaloo, currently, located? Where you stand is what you see.

 

[syvictoria]

(NO OFFENCE INTENDED!) Nortada is without doubt a valued, experienced and knowledgeable contributor to these types of threads, but I can't help but wonder whether he does sometimes purposely try to cause confusion and misunderstanding!!!?

 

[Star-Lord]

LMAONew one on me.

Despite having Portuguese residency, of course this thread concerns me and many others like me and the very reason that this thread is informative is that those with knowledge share it.

The future of EHIC and biometric residency permits are but two issues that will continue concern all Brits living and visiting the EU.

Whilst I agree your idea that, for financial reasons, some southern EU states might like to enter into bilateral agreements to offer extended stays, how would they square this with Schengen and the rest of the EU

Rather than EU wide, residency is a state-by-state issue so more likely, states will continue to give residency on special terms. The Portugal Golden visas, already enjoyed by non-EU nationals, is an example of a ‘work around’. Post 31/12/20 there could be others such plans.

Another option could be (as discussed before In this thread) that the agreement, still being negotiated could give the same deal as offered to EU residents - 183/365 days.

Time will tell.

They will not need to square anything imo many or most EU States bend the rules considerably. I'm quite sure UK was the only member who played with a straight bat!!

 

[Kelpie]

So, an EU country, issue can a Schengen visa, giving access to the whole of the Schengen Zone Clearly a way for Brit boaties to go next year.

Yes that is precisely how we will all have to go next year (unless you are a special case e.g. dual citizenship, residency of an EU country).
The visa is valid for 90 days in every 180. It is the visa that this thread is specifically talking about.
Once it expires, you have to leave Schengen for the following 90 days and can then come back on the same terms.

You CANNOT simply move to a different country in the Schengen zone and get a fresh 90 days concurrent with the last stay.

 

[nortada]

(NO OFFENCE INTENDED!) Nortada is without doubt a valued, experienced and knowledgeable contributor to these types of threads, but I can't help but wonder whether he does sometimes purposely try to cause confusion and misunderstanding!!!?

Thank you for your kind words.

To answer your question. My aim is to push the boundaries of our corporate knowledge and I do this by asking, at times, provocative questions or challenging other's perceptions.

Ningaloo's post at #63, is a case in point. In response to my pressing, he has produced a useful response, which others may choose to endorse, add to or challenge. This must add to our corporate knowledge.

When you look at my messages, I may challenge others' points of view or understanding but I never insult or call out the contributor.

I leave it to others to judge if my strategy works.

 

[nortada]

They will not need to square anything imo many or most EU States bend the rules considerably. I'm quite sure UK was the only member who played with a straight bat!!

Possibly true, but I think the UK bends the bat just as much as the next. Possibly, they are better at hiding it.

Come on I am consumed with curiosity - what does LMAO mean?

If it could be a beaching offence PM me - I can take it. ?

 

[syvictoria]

Possibly true, but I think the UK bends the bat just as much as the next. Possibly, they are better at hiding it.

Or perhaps we're just more oblivious to it as we don't bash heads with it!

Come on I am consumed with curiosity - what does LMAO mean?

Laughing My A** Off, I believe!

 

[newtothis]

Come on I am consumed with curiosity - what does LMAO mean?

If it could be a beaching offence PM me - I can take it. ?

It's a phrase commonly found on donkey sanctuary forums: Laughing My Ass Off.

 

[nortada]

Yes that is precisely how we will all have to go next year (unless you are a special case e.g. dual citizenship, residency of an EU country).
The visa is valid for 90 days in every 180. It is the visa that this thread is specifically talking about.
Once it expires, you have to leave Schengen for the following 90 days and can then come back on the same terms.

You CANNOT simply move to a different country in the Schengen zone and get a fresh 90 days concurrent with the last stay.

Got it.

But in #63 Nangaloo suggests that the EU has agreed that UK sailors will NOT have to apply for a visa in advance but this will be granted (maybe more a travel permit than a visa?) on arrival at the border. From 2022 he understands there will be an electronic "visa" that will need to be applied for online.

This is not quite the same as you are saying.

I should add, because of my personal circumstances, rather than self-interest, I am questioning to clear up any others misunderstandings.

I would also suggest, that until all of the terms of the current negotiations become known, it is all speculation and conjecture. Fortunately, it should become much clearer before the start of the 2021 season.

 

[nortada]

Laughing My A** Off, I believe!

Thanks for that.

If true - I don't really understand the context in which it was used

 

[Alicatt]

Yes that is precisely how we will all have to go next year (unless you are a special case e.g. dual citizenship, residency of an EU country).
The visa is valid for 90 days in every 180. It is the visa that this thread is specifically talking about.
Once it expires, you have to leave Schengen for the following 90 days and can then come back on the same terms.

You CANNOT simply move to a different country in the Schengen zone and get a fresh 90 days concurrent with the last stay.

That is one of the problems with having residency in the EU, you are only allowed unlimited stay in the country of your residency, you still are limited to 90/180 in all other Schengen states as a UK citizen.

My wife and I had been planning on selling up and taking an extended "holiday" on a boat in the Med after we are both pensioned, the news that our bank in the UK is going to remove any accounts of those living in the EU was the final straw, but with only a residency card for me then I would have to return to Belgium or the UK every 90days.

Not knowing what the rules are going to be makes things difficult. Most of our trips to the UK are via Ijmuden to Newcastle, the prospect of traveling from Newcastle to Ijmuden on my UK passport, getting it stamped there and then driving on to my home in Belgium, stay 120days and then have to go back to the UK via Ijmuden they see the passport stamped 120days ago, deport me and not allow me back in, it's a prospect that could happen at the moment.

So now it'll have to be a bigger boat and sail to North Africa, stay for a while and then return for a fresh 90 days.
Sigh!

 

[st599]

The UK will have a visa waiver to the EU, so.you don't need to apply in advance. From 2022 you will need an ETIAS, but that's not a visa and lasts for a number of years.

UK were offered an extension to 183 days rather than 90 if the UK also offered a 6 month visa waiver to EU citizens but were turned down. This allows the UK to be selective on who gets a visa.

There is no 6 month Schengen visa for tourism purposes. Each state can issue a longer tourist visa, but that does not extend the time you can spend in other Schengen states.

 

[st599]

I would also suggest, that until all of the terms of the current negotiations become known it is all speculation and conjecture. Fortunately, it should become much clearer before the start of the 2021 season.

The UK government have confirmed that visa access and visa waivers are not part of this negotiation.

 

[Kelpie]

@st599 thanks for that clarification. So the six months in Schengen is not actually a visa.

 

[st599]

@st599 thanks for that clarification. So the six months in Schengen is not actually a visa.

Which 6 months in Schengen? According to the RYA the UK turned the offered 6month waiver down as they wanted to be able to make conditions on entry for EU citizens arriving.

We will have 90 in 180 on the Visa Waiver, to stay beyond that you'd need a Visa. The Schengen Visa scheme does not cover tourism. You can get a Tourist Visa for an individual country (with conditions, normally you will need proof of cash, address, return tickets, it may be single entry etc.) but that does not change your status for the rest of the Schengen area.

 

[nortada]

Which 6 months in Schengen? According to the RYA the UK turned the offered 6month waiver down as they wanted to be able to make conditions on entry for EU citizens arriving.

We will have 90 in 180 on the Visa Waiver, to stay beyond that you'd need a Visa. The Schengen Visa scheme does not cover tourism. You can get a Tourist Visa for an individual country (with conditions, normally you will need proof of cash, address, return tickets, it may be single entry etc.) but that does not change your status for the rest of the Schengen area.

Thank you, very useful.

Please provide the link you are using to get all of this information.

Ta