Schengen 90/180 post Brexit (again... I know!)

[nortada]

F$#k knows.

RYA promotes the RYA's interest - self promotion.

As an overseas sailor, certainly not mine.

SYV Sorry for thread drift? - back to topic.

 

[greeny]

I wrote to my MP 8 weeks ago about a different subject. It took her 6 weeks to get back to me and she asked if the question was still needing raising. I said yes. I've heard nothing else since. Waste of time.
Do you really think they give a monkeys about a relatively small group of people, (many of whom don't even vote), amongst the fiasco that's going on in Brexit negotiations at the moment.
Even if they did care, they are incapable of negotiating anything worthwhile for us as the 90 in 180 versus 180 at a time "agreement" shows.
Bunch of balloons gambling the future of a once great country away.

 

[nortada]

Sorry - that hadn't actually even occurred to me... I've seen numerous responses in other threads along the lines of 'you might get more response in x forum', and often from your good self!

And please, again to quote your good self, let's keep this thread on track. If you have nothing helpful or supportive to say... etc.

As you see, I have amended my #7 to suggest a possible solution.

 

[Sandy]

I hope that's said in jest! We can't possibly just sit back and accept a status quo forever! Brexit is happening, but the shape of the future is still very much up for negotiation.

Of course it was not said in jest. The UK, in my eyes quite wrongly, voted to leave the EU. We now must follow the rules that every other non-EU country must follow.

I can't see the UK being able to negotiate its way out of a paper bag at the moment.

 

[Whitlock]

why become fixated on shengen rules,yacht crew signed onto a vessel should be allowed to land using a shore pass that can be renewed every 3 months,indefinitly,since technically whilst the yacht is in the country they are residents,shengen rules should only apply once they are signed off of the yacht.

You are talking about professional crew? Amateur crew don't sign on and off yachts and your scheme looks like an easy way to get illegals into a country.

 

[Whitlock]

F$#k knows.

???

 

[atol]

You are talking about professional crew? Amateur crew don't sign on and off yachts and your scheme looks like an easy way to get illegals into a country.

this was the rule,rather than the exception in most of the world for ALL crew joining ANY vessel up untill about 20 years ago.

 

[syvictoria]

Of course it was not said in jest. The UK, in my eyes quite wrongly, voted to leave the EU. We now must follow the rules that every other non-EU country must follow.

I can't see the UK being able to negotiate its way out of a paper bag at the moment.

So why are millions/billions (?) being spent on trying to negotiate a deal then?

Sadly I can't disagree with the second statement...

 

[Poignard]

The RYA's information page about what happens after Brexit:

Brexit - what happens next? | Current Affairs | Knowledge & Advice | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

states in it's final paragraphs:

"The RYA has been lobbying hard to ensure that the inadequacy of the Schengen visa time frames for UK residents who keep their boats in the EU and who wish to cruise in excess of 90 days on Community waters is understood.

We are asking members who would be impacted by the restriction of only being able to spend 90 days in any 180 days in the Schengen area to write to their MP and urge the UK Government to seek reciprocity, as UK allows visitors to stay for up to six months."

I brought this to the attention of my MP by email, and it would seem that he is now going to try to pursue this matter through parliament! Whether his efforts will have any affect, I can of course not say, but it is a positive step in the right direction at least. I would therefore encourage as many people as possible to write to their MPs. It's also worth noting that this was not the first time that I'd emailed my MP regarding this matter, but it is the first time that he has seemingly been willing to pursue the matter at all. It would therefore seem that referencing the RYA and the above paragraph is key.

.
Thanks for that link. Very useful.

 

[Sandy]

So why are millions/billions (?) being spent on trying to negotiate a deal then?

I've no idea, that's for the politicians to answer.

I'll just play by the rules and check in/out and do any quarantine that needs to be done for the foreseeable future, which I see as a far bigger issue in the short term.

 

[Kelpie]

this was the rule,rather than the exception in most of the world for ALL crew joining ANY vessel up untill about 20 years ago.

Presumably the way this works is that you must arrive at a port of entry and then not stray too far from the boat?

 

[syvictoria]

Turns out that my optimism yesterday was ill founded, as my MP has today palmed me off with the normal response. Quite why I was this time asked to sign a third party disclosure form which I took to mean that the matter was going to be pursued, I don't know.

The one thing today's response does do is to put to bed any debate about who is offering who what in terms of 90/180 and 180/360. The letter clearly states:

"As part of its plans for this new immigration system, the Government has said that it expects to grant EU nationals up to six months visa-free travel to the UK for tourism. I know that many people, including recreational boaters and second homeowners, would like this to be reciprocated by the EU.

Unfortunately, the current negotiations on our future relationship with the EU do not cover this issue. The EU has already legislated to provide UK nationals with visa-free travel to EU countries for short stays of up to 90 days in every 180-day period."

So that would appear to be that. Once again, thank you Brexiters. Now all we can hope for is that something good (?) comes out of this ridiculous self-harm that the UK has voted for. I wait with bated breath...

 

[atol]

Presumably the way this works is that you must arrive at a port of entry and then not stray too far from the boat?

Arriving at a port of entry to clear customs,health and immigration is pretty standard practise world wide as is getting a"coast wise" clearance,,or applying for a cruising permit for movements within the country's borders on any vessel,irrespective of being private or commercial.

How far you can travel from the vessel on a landing card is up to the immigration,most countries will issue Transit visas or Tourist visas if you need to leave the vessel indefinitly.

 

[nortada]

The UK haven't offered a 6 month stay to the EU, they've agreed it!

To clarify:
EU > UK = 180/360
UK > EU = 90/180

I have a growing suspicion that like most of the negotiations (excluding the Trade Deal), agreement has already been reached on this issue but under an EU ruling, because nothing can be reveled (ratified), until everything has been agreed, it has to be kept under wraps.

For the future, what is to stop a system, by which Brit's passports are date stamped entering the Schengen Zone and inspected and stamped on departure. If you have overstayed your welcome (183 days in 365), big slap on wrist and possibly a sanction.

When entering our host country, we residents would present our biometric residency permits, with our passports, which would not be stamped but if entering our passport would would be date stamped if entering another EU country.on entering our host country we would get proof of location (AMTC receipt etc.)

Scheme rather in abeyance until we all have biometric residency permits, but that's another story, Biometric Residency Permits.

To help fund the scheme, why not sell a 6 month visa to those British visitors, who do not have residency?

Of course this would not resolve the issue of your travel between your host and back to other Schengen countries so I leave other brains to devise a scheme for this situation.

I am hearing there is a similar plan to continue to recognise the UK EHIC.

After all, post 31/12/20, Brits in the S1 scheme, will continue to get a UK EHIC.

Much easier to let the current system continue and let the UK continue to pick up health cost for all UK EHIC holders in the EU.

Now to fishing, anybody got that nice Mr Barnier's phone number ?

 

[syvictoria]

For the future, what is to stop a system, by which Brit's passports are date stamped entering the Schengen Zone and inspected and stamped on departure. If you have overstayed your welcome (183 days in 365), big slap on wrist and possibly a sanction.

I think that there is still a misunderstanding here. We (British passport holders) will NOT get 183 days in 365. We will get 90/180. That is the problem! Passports will of course need to be stamped on entry and exit - I'm not sure that anyone is doubting that.

When entering our host country, we residents would present our biometric residency permits...

Regretfully I think that there is a danger of muddying the waters again here. The 90/180 issue has nothing to do with residency elsewhere (outside of the UK). As has been pointed out before, that is a bonus/solution to some, and of no help whatsoever to others.

My apologies if I've misunderstood your meaning/intentions above. I'm not trying to pick a fight!

 

[st599]

I think that there is still a misunderstanding here. We (British passport holders) will NOT get 183 days in 365. We will get 90/180. That is the problem! Passports will of course need to be stamped on entry and exit - I'm not sure that anyone is doubting that.

It may be a virtual stamp, i.e. being recorded on the Schengen database, rather than a physical stamp.

I'm pretty sure the penalty is known, deportation, a fine and a ban on re-entry.

 

[BirvidikBob]

That's me sorted then!

I still have my Seaman's .... discharge Book.

Do you have to record it every time it happens?

 

[Ningaloo]

Why is this STILL being discussed? The Schengen visa rules have been in existence since Schengen agreement existed. We knew we would be restricted in the same way as any other third country national 4 years ago. The only thing that was not certain when we voted in the referendum was the possibility of getting a "virtual" visa at the border rather than having to attend an EU embassy to be interviewed/assessed for a visa. Thank goodness we are at least spared that!

 

[nortada]

I think that there is still a misunderstanding here. We (British passport holders) will NOT get 183 days in 365. We will get 90/180. That is the problem! Passports will of course need to be stamped on entry and exit - I'm not sure that anyone is doubting that.

No misunderstanding here. Fully understand the Schengen Rules so yes, as things stand, you Brits will get 90/180 days max in the EU. But you yourself, stated that the UK will give EU residents 180/360 days so just postulating the EU may reciprocate. Clearly the current situation, were it to persist would be anything but a level playing field. Possibly more persuasive, lack of British travellers will damage local economies - what no camper-vans in Portugal during the winter months? ?

As to stamping passports, courtesy of Graham's research, we have a categoric statement that we residents will not have our passports stamped by our host country. Elsewhere, who knows, but yes I think it is likely when you join the aliens' queue, your passport will be date stamped.

Regretfully I think that there is a danger of muddying the waters again here. The 90/180 issue has nothing to do with residency elsewhere (outside of the UK). As has been pointed out before, that is a bonus/solution to some, and of no help whatsoever to others.

With respect, the 90/180 day Schengen Rule applies to all aliens in the EU. Which is why I make no apology for busting a gut to try and talk Brits into getting residency, wherever possible (There is still just time.) If your residency appears to be going tits up, you can immediately revoke it, so for Brits, it really is a win-win situation, or is that having you cake and eating it.

My apologies if I've misunderstood your meaning/intentions above. I'm not trying to pick a fight!

No apology needed, quite the reverse, challenges make us review and refine our arguments (and correct our errors).

These discussions also give others a chance to review their situation from the comfort of their armchairs so please keep testing me/us.

 

[nortada]

Why is this STILL being discussed? The Schengen visa rules have been in existence since Schengen agreement existed. We knew we would be restricted in the same way as any other third country national 4 years ago. The only thing that was not certain when we voted in the referendum was the possibility of getting a "virtual" visa at the border rather than having to attend an EU embassy to be interviewed/assessed for a visa. Thank goodness we are at least spared that!

It is still being discussed because, nothing has been set in concrete.

You may recall that when Schenger came into existence, the UK and others, declined to join and were given a special status. The same could happen again.

Sensibly, we are all planning for the worst case (90/180), but postulating that, when it comes, 'the final deal' may be rather different.

Additionally, by discussing it and giving the overlay of experience of those at the front line (never had SYV, Graham, Greeny, Goldie, Sailaboutvic, Chris Robb, Sailfree, Clancy Moped, Tony Cross, webby, RAI and many others down as Special Forces but they certainly can deliver Shock & Awe), have consistently pushed the boundaries of knowledge forward.

For which, I for one, am very grateful.

Next hurdle is to get a biometric residency permit or a EU visa - if they exist.