Schengen 90/180 post Brexit (again... I know!)

[sailaboutvic]

To date, no response in Scuttlebutt - surprised by lack of interest from UK based sailors?

No sure what respond you may get C , most U.K. base sailor only sail into the Europe for just a few weeks a year so the situation isn't going to bother them .

 

[Ningaloo]

when Schenger came into existence, the UK and others, declined to join and were given a special status. The same could happen again.

The special status was granted to us as an EU member.
Can you tell me of ANY non EU / non-Schengen country that is able to get a (tourist) visa for the entire block for more than 90/180?

I am aware that some individual EU countries might grant extensions to the 90 days, but these are difficult to use as they can ONLY be triggered once you have used your initial 90 days, so for example if Portugal decides to offer us 180/365 we have to use up the 90 days and can then stay in Portugal, but not travel to any other Schengen country.

In my case I can get an extension in France, but I plan to start my 2021 trip to the Med in France so that is of little use to me.

 

[syvictoria]

No sure what respond you may get C , most U.K. base sailor only sail into the Europe for just a few weeks a year so the situation isn't going to bother them .

Granted, but readers may also have camper vans, holiday homes, etc. too. Anyway, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, my overzealous optimism yesterday has sadly been quashed again today.

 

[nortada]

The special status was granted to us as an EU member.

Can you tell me of ANY non EU / non-Schengen country that is able to get a (tourist) visa for the entire block for more than 90/180?

I am aware that some individual EU countries might grant extensions to the 90 days, but these are difficult to use as they can ONLY be triggered once you have used your initial 90 days, so for example if Portugal decides to offer us 180/365 we have to use up the 90 days and can then stay in Portugal, but not travel to any other Schengen country.

In my case I can get an extension in France, but I plan to start my 2021 trip to the Med in France so that is of little use to me.

Correct, as the UK was already a member of the EU, when Schengen came along, a dispensation had to be found otherwise the UK (and Ireland) would have ceased to be members of the EU.

As to your questions, sorry but as I am resident in the EU, really not my part of ship.

However, knowing Portugal, I would be reluctant to make any guesses about future arrangements or possibly more relevant, rules as opposed to reality.

I do agree that, in the future, it is unlikely you will have total freedom to float about between EU countries but who knows?

Sailaboutvic is more up on these things than me.

 

[Kelpie]

Why is this STILL being discussed? The Schengen visa rules have been in existence since Schengen agreement existed. We knew we would be restricted in the same way as any other third country national 4 years ago. The only thing that was not certain when we voted in the referendum was the possibility of getting a "virtual" visa at the border rather than having to attend an EU embassy to be interviewed/assessed for a visa. Thank goodness we are at least spared that!

This is just revisionism. We certainly did not know 4 years ago that we would end up defaulting to a no deal scenario. There was plenty of talk of different models, staying in the single market, 'Norway For Now', etc. And when I say talk, I don't just mean people on the fringes of the Brexit movement, e.g.

"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down... there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market

 

[nortada]

This is just revisionism. We certainly did not know 4 years ago that we would end up defaulting to a no deal scenario. There was plenty of talk of different models, staying in the single market, 'Norway For Now', etc. And when I say talk, I don't just mean people on the fringes of the Brexit movement, e.g.

We still don’t know‼

The fat lady has yet to sing.?

 

[Ningaloo]

This is just revisionism. We certainly did not know 4 years ago that we would end up defaulting to a no deal scenario. There was plenty of talk of different models, staying in the single market, 'Norway For Now', etc. And when I say talk, I don't just mean people on the fringes of the Brexit movement, e.g.

I don't agree.
And I ask again, Is there ANY non EU / non-Schenguen country that can get a visa across the entire region for more than 90/180?
This WAS known 4 years ago.
The only way we MIGHT have retained the kind of access you propose was if we has JOINED Schengen as part of the Brexit deal, and that would not have gone down well with the Euro-sceptics that have led us to this unfortunate position.
Please don't tell me you believed any of BoJo's promises! Didn't you realise he just wanted the status of PM and wasn't at all interested actually carrying out the role?

 

[Kelpie]

I don't agree.
And I ask again, Is there ANY non EU / non-Schenguen country that can get a visa across the entire region for more than 90/180?
This WAS known 4 years ago.
The only way we MIGHT have retained the kind of access you propose was if we has JOINED Schengen as part of the Brexit deal, and that would not have gone down well with the Euro-sceptics that have led us to this unfortunate position.
Please don't tell me you believed any of BoJo's promises! Didn't you realise he just wanted the status of PM and wasn't at all interested actually carrying out the role?

I think we may be in violent agreement. But back in 2016 anybody raising the point you are making was accused of being part of Project Fear.

 

[Star-Lord]

That’s what I understood.

The U.K. has gone unilateral on this one so provided that they meet the criteria (visas), EU citizens will be able to spend 6 months in the U.K.

On reflection because many liveaboards have EU residency; others have a good understanding of the debate and possibly do not have a U.K. MP to contact, possibly the best place for this discussion is Scuttlebutt.

LMAO This thread deserves to be HERE. This issue does not concern you because you have Portugal residency and a place in UK!! This is the Liveaboard forum not Doube Residency forum. If this very informative thread were anywhere I would have missed it. This issue does not concern you.

 

[Star-Lord]

Turns out that my optimism yesterday was ill founded, as my MP has today palmed me off with the normal response. Quite why I was this time asked to sign a third party disclosure form which I took to mean that the matter was going to be pursued, I don't know.

The one thing today's response does do is to put to bed any debate about who is offering who what in terms of 90/180 and 180/360. The letter clearly states:

"As part of its plans for this new immigration system, the Government has said that it expects to grant EU nationals up to six months visa-free travel to the UK for tourism. I know that many people, including recreational boaters and second homeowners, would like this to be reciprocated by the EU.

Unfortunately, the current negotiations on our future relationship with the EU do not cover this issue. The EU has already legislated to provide UK nationals with visa-free travel to EU countries for short stays of up to 90 days in every 180-day period."

So that would appear to be that. Once again, thank you Brexiters. Now all we can hope for is that something good (?) comes out of this ridiculous self-harm that the UK has voted for. I wait with bated breath...

My theory is individual states will offer us 6 month visa if they are also offered 6 month visas. However this may take a bit of time. Too many secon home owners will be selling up otherwise - and marinas will lose a few customers but I do not think we carry as much weight as business non residents and the property owners.

 

[nortada]

LMAO This thread deserves to be HERE. This issue does not concern you because you have Portugal residency and a place in UK!! This is the Liveaboard forum not Doube Residency forum. If this very informative thread were anywhere I would have missed it. This issue does not concern you.

LMAONew one on me.

Despite having Portuguese residency, of course this thread concerns me and many others like me and the very reason that this thread is informative is that those with knowledge share it.

The future of EHIC and biometric residency permits are but two issues that will continue concern all Brits living and visiting the EU.

Whilst I agree your idea that, for financial reasons, some southern EU states might like to enter into bilateral agreements to offer extended stays, how would they square this with Schengen and the rest of the EU

Rather than EU wide, residency is a state-by-state issue so more likely, states will continue to give residency on special terms. The Portugal Golden visas, already enjoyed by non-EU nationals, is an example of a ‘work around’. Post 31/12/20 there could be others such plans.

Another option could be (as discussed before In this thread) that the agreement, still being negotiated could give the same deal as offered to EU residents - 183/365 days.

Time will tell.

 

[Ningaloo]

Whilst I agree your idea that, for financial reasons, some southern EU states might like to enter into bilateral agreements to offer extended stays, how would they square this with Schengen and the rest of the EU

This is well established and does not conflict with Schengen
Individual EU countries can offer country specific visas in addition the the overall Schengen visa however these are complicated to use and usually require a reciprocal arrangement. (E.g. Australia has 180 day agreement with France and others...) They can only be used as extensions to Schengen so you must use your standard 90 days first then you can use the extension (country) visa.
This will work for 2nd home owners who fly in, but will not allow you to drive through any other countries on your return and will not work for nomadic yachts that want to move on to a different country.
Given the strange decision made by UK not to accept the alleged offer from EU to allow 180/365 (as this is what we give EU) I wonder if our government will consider granting alternative visas to individual EU countries. It seems unlikely.

 

[nortada]

This is well established and does not conflict with Schengen.

Individual EU countries can offer country specific visas in addition the the overall Schengen visa however these are complicated to use and usually require a reciprocal arrangement. (E.g. Australia has 180 day agreement with France and others...) They can only be used as extensions to Schengen so you must use your standard 90 days first then you can use the extension (country) visa.

This will work for 2nd home owners who fly in, but will not allow you to drive through any other countries on your return and will not work for nomadic yachts that want to move on to a different country.

Given the strange decision made by UK not to accept the alleged offer from EU to allow 180/365 (as this is what we give EU) I wonder if our government will consider granting alternative visas to individual EU countries.

Thank you for an interesting input.

Others, more qualified than me, may choose to chew over the points you have made but I wasn't aware that the EU can issue an overall Schengen visa?

In #6 SVC raised the 183/365 issue but didn't clarify why, whilst the UK unilaterally granted the EU 183/365, they didn't accept a reciprocal offer from the EU - strange, any reason given?

 

[st599]

In #6 SVC raised the 183/365 issue but didn't clarify why, whilst the UK unilaterally granted the EU 183/365, they didn't accept a reciprocal offer from the EU - strange, any reason given?

The reason given by the RYA was that the EU offer of 183/365 was open to all UK citizens if the UK reciprocated by making access open to all EU citizens. The UK wanted to have control who could come to the UK and wouldn't make it unconditional.

 

[nortada]

The reason given by the RYA was that the EU offer of 183/365 was open to all UK citizens if the UK reciprocated by making access open to all EU citizens. The UK wanted to have control who could come to the UK and wouldn't make it unconditional.

This RYA observation doesn't sit comfortably with SVC's #6 below (unilaterally) my addition.

The UK haven't offered a 6 month stay to the EU, they've (unilaterally) agreed it!

To clarify:
EU > UK = 180/360
UK > EU = 90/180

 

[st599]

This RYA observation doesn't sit comfortably with SVC's #6 below (unilaterally) my addition.

The UK haven't offered a 6 month stay to the EU, they've (unilaterally) agreed it!

To clarify:
EU > UK = 180/360
UK > EU = 90/180

You're missing the point - the UK offer is a tourist visa, to which requirements can be attached. The EU offer was a visa waiver, open to all.

 

[nortada]

You're missing the point - the UK offer is a tourist visa, to which requirements can be attached. The EU offer was a visa waiver, open to all.

Thanks for the clarification.

What is a tourist visa as opposed to a normal visa and what extra requirements could be attached?

In the past, frequently had visas, which when accompanied by a passport gave full right of entry, passage and exit during the period the visa was valid.

Never seen a tourist visa.

 

[Ningaloo]

Thanks for the clarification.

What is a tourist visa as opposed to a normal visa and what extra requirements could be attached?

In the past, frequently had visas, which when accompanied by a passport gave full right of entry, passage and exit during the period the visa was valid.

Never seen a tourist visa.

A tourist visa is for a casual stay of a finite length that does not permit work (and may have other restrictions).
All visas have restrictions and there are many different types of visa.
In most cases when you are not working or studying, and staying for a relatively short time you will have a "tourist" class visa even is this is not explicitly stated on the document.

 

[Ningaloo]

Others, more qualified than me, may choose to chew over the points you have made but I wasn't aware that the EU can issue an overall Schengen visa?

When a third country passport holder applies for a (tourist) visa to any EU country, they are generally issued with a Schengen visa. The application is made to an individual country, usually the country of entry into the Schengen block, but it is not restricted to that country and grants access to all the countries in Schengen. The 90/180 restriction applies to the block as a whole.

 

[nortada]

A tourist visa is for a casual stay of a finite length that does not permit work (and may have other restrictions).
All visas have restrictions and there are many different types of visa.
In most cases when you are not working or studying, and staying for a relatively short time you will have a "tourist" class visa even is this is not explicitly stated on the document.

'even is this is not explicitly stated on the document' so how do you know you have a "tourist" class visa