Schengen 90/180 post Brexit (again... I know!)

[Star-Lord]

It seems Italy is giving UK residents until June 2021 to apply for residency. This is word from a friend with Italian immigration lawyer. Nothing official yet but this is the word. It may very well remain 'unofficial'. This should give us in Italy some breathing room. I am thinking we will be allowed in Italy until June without a visa...

The Sicily crew are an interesting case... Did they pay for full winter contract or just till end of March?

As I have stated before I expect individual EU27 countries to grant UK extend stay visa or even just extended stay - maybe if a marina contract is produced?

I think Italy may be leading the pack! In the same way as they accepted boats at the height of lock down earlier in the year unlike almost every other European / world country - they will be the first to allow UK to spend longer than 90 days in their country? We shall see.

 

[Star-Lord]

And who is to say UK b

Never considered having residency in the EU a problem. Indeed, I suspect many would like to be blessed with this problem.

If cruising abroad, for a number of reasons, keeping a contact address in the U.K. is a smart move. For a start, it would overcome any banking problems.

Agree, not knowing the rules does make planning difficult but you are not the first to see 90 days in North Africa or other non-Schengen Zone countries as a possible solution.

Best of luck with your adventure and look forward to hearing how you get on.

And who is to say UK banks will not terminate all accounts held by people with residency in Europe in the future? If you want to be smart - do not use UK bank cards, cc in Europe - use European ones and do not transfer money from UK bank to European bank. Use an intermediary account like Transferwise or something. I think getting residency in Europe will backfire on people who are not committed to living 100% of their time in chosen country. I also think NHS will not be willing to treat people who have 'dual residency' in the future.

 

[nortada]

And who is to say UK banks will not terminate all accounts held by people with residency in Europe in the future?

If you want to be smart - do not use UK bank cards, cc in Europe - use European ones and do not transfer money from UK bank to European bank. Use an intermediary account like Transferwise or something.

I think getting residency in Europe will backfire on people who are not committed to living 100% of their time in chosen country.

I also think NHS will not be willing to treat people who have 'dual residency' in the future.

Once again, please excuse me taking the liberty of amending your paragraphing to tie in with my responses.

If you have an address in the U.K., why would U.K. banks terminate your accounts As you correctly suggest, there are many ways of transferring funds so folk will identify the ones most suitable to them and their circumstances.

Banking in Europe doesn’t come free and for the true cruiser, do they open accounts in every country they spend time in

Additionally, banking is only one reason for keeping an address in the U.K.

Rightly, if you do not respect the terms of your residency, then there should be no surprise, if it is terminated but different countries have different rules. If a country permits dual residency, then it is unlikely they will require you to spend 100% of your time in their country. Portugal requires over 50% for the first 5 years. Subsequently, as I understand it, no minimum time In country requirementOthers may be able to qualify this.

If you are in the U.K. based, S1 Scheme, the U.K. recognises that you are resident in another country but still agrees to fund your healthcare and, should you be in the U.K., you will still be able the access free NHS care. They even fund an EHIC card for travel in other EU countries.

Sorry, as these are personal opinions, I can’t provide any links.?

 

[greeny]

And who is to say UK b

And who is to say UK banks will not terminate all accounts held by people with residency in Europe in the future? If you want to be smart - do not use UK bank cards, cc in Europe - use European ones and do not transfer money from UK bank to European bank. Use an intermediary account like Transferwise or something. I think getting residency in Europe will backfire on people who are not committed to living 100% of their time in chosen country. I also think NHS will not be willing to treat people who have 'dual residency' in the future.

If you are below retirement age and resident abroad then what you say about healthcare is true, but only if you tell them. (which you should do )
As a pensioner in receipt of the S1 cert, the NHS have no choice according to the rules. Nothing to do with brexit. A Uk pensioner living anywhere in the world can still receive health care in the UK if he returns. Link:- Healthcare for UK nationals living in Portugal
I agree that there may yet be a sting or two in tail for those that have falsely declared they live in an EU country when they really live in UK. Income tax declaration is the first one that springs to mind.

 

[Star-Lord]

.

 

[Tony Cross]

And who is to say UK b

And who is to say UK banks will not terminate all accounts held by people with residency in Europe in the future? If you want to be smart - do not use UK bank cards, cc in Europe - use European ones and do not transfer money from UK bank to European bank. Use an intermediary account like Transferwise or something. I think getting residency in Europe will backfire on people who are not committed to living 100% of their time in chosen country. I also think NHS will not be willing to treat people who have 'dual residency' in the future.

That's certainly a good point about UK banks, that issue has raised its head in some quarters already. Most of us maintain a UK address for such purposes.

Most of us would never dream of transferring money direct from a UK bank to a (Greek in my case) bank, the exchange rate they offer is abysmal. We already all use intermediaries that offer much better exchange rates.

I absolutely agree that obtaining residency requires being resident. Residency is a physical thing not a lifestyle choice.

Those receiving a UK state pension should apply for an S1 form ASAP and get healthcare in their country of residence, paid for by the NHS. The accompanying documentation makes it clear that NHS health care on visits to the UK will still be free as though you were ordinarily resident there. Permanently returning to the UK simply involves informing them of your return and you revert to normal NHS healthcare.

Your points are important but none of them are showstoppers.

 

[Graham376]

Those receiving a UK state pension should apply for an S1 form ASAP and get healthcare in their country of residence, paid for by the NHS. The accompanying documentation makes it clear that NHS health care on visits to the UK will still be free as though you were ordinarily resident there. Permanently returning to the UK simply involves informing them of your return and you revert to normal NHS healthcare.

I prefer to maintain UK tax residence so have avoided the S1 route as it's an admission the holder is no longer UK resident, which in itself can lead to banking and other problems. Had car insurance renewal refused one year when they realised we hadn't spent 6 months in country. Had no problem registering in Portuguese health system without S1 but it seems others who have gone down the immigration route and claimed tax benefits have needed it.

 

[Star-Lord]

That's certainly a good point about UK banks, that issue has raised its head in some quarters already. Most of us maintain a UK address for such purposes.

Most of us would never dream of transferring money direct from a UK bank to a (Greek in my case) bank, the exchange rate they offer is abysmal. We already all use intermediaries that offer much better exchange rates.

I absolutely agree that obtaining residency requires being resident. Residency is a physical thing not a lifestyle choice.

Those receiving a UK state pension should apply for an S1 form ASAP and get healthcare in their country of residence, paid for by the NHS. The accompanying documentation makes it clear that NHS health care on visits to the UK will still be free as though you were ordinarily resident there. Permanently returning to the UK simply involves informing them of your return and you revert to normal NHS healthcare.

Your points are important but none of them are showstoppers.

Ah.... But what I mean is even if you have a UK address you may lose your British bank account Because you have residency in a EU27 state....
So in other words British Bank for people living in Britain only... My point is a lot of people are rushing to get residency abroad and we just do not know the long term implications of this especially if UK adopts isolation policy... Banks have been cutting back for years and Brexit will lose them even more money so I believe they may slim down even more - and if EU applies negative interest rates and UK does not - or visa versa - then customers not 100% resident in UK may very well lose some rights... Maybe just credit cards for example... I don't know but there is no way I am becoming a resident in EU27 until the dust has settled and that could take a long time. Hello Africa!

 

[nortada]

Ah.... But what I mean is even if you have a UK address you may lose your British bank account Because you have residency in a EU27 state....
So in other words British Bank for people living in Britain only... My point is a lot of people are rushing to get residency abroad and we just do not know the long term implications of this especially if UK adopts isolation policy... Banks have been cutting back for years and Brexit will lose them even more money so I believe they may slim down even more - and if EU applies negative interest rates and UK does not - or visa versa - then customers not 100% resident in UK may very well lose some rights... Maybe just credit cards for example... I don't know but there is no way I am becoming a resident in EU27 until the dust has settled and that could take a long time. Hello Africa!

Agree there are a lot of unknowns but the bottom line, if residency proves to have more negatives than positives then cancel your residency and accept the lot of a visitor; 90/180 and all that. After 31/12/20, or as it is looking in some countries, 30/6/21, it will be a lot easier to dump residency, than get.

A thought, if the EU amended Schengen to 180/365 days, it could resolve a lot of problems. In reality, it is not very different from 2x (90/180).

On extending the window to get residency, Portugal has also agree this but you have to demonstrate intent to ‘live’ in Portugal.

If required, I will look for the link on this.?

 

[Graham376]

Ah.... But what I mean is even if you have a UK address you may lose your British bank account Because you have residency in a EU27 state....
So in other words British Bank for people living in Britain only... My point is a lot of people are rushing to get residency abroad and we just do not know the long term implications of this especially if UK adopts isolation policy...

Much may depend on existing treaties. UK and Portugal both allow dual residence and dual citizenship whereas some countries don't. I've had permanent residence for a few years and so far, except for UK car insurance one year, haven't had any problems. My wife has had dual citizenship for close on 50 years.

 

[nortada]

Much may depend on existing treaties. UK and Portugal both allow dual residence and dual citizenship whereas some countries don't. I've had permanent residence for a few years and so far, except for UK car insurance one year, haven't had any problems. My wife has had dual citizenship for close on 50 years.

Why back at the start of all this, the then British Ambassador and a team of Portuguese worthies did a series of presentations (to calm fears). Part of the message was Grandfather Rights between to 2 countries would continue to be observed.

 

[Graham376]

Why back at the start of all this, the then British Ambassador and a team of Portuguese worthies did a series of presentations (to calm fears). Part of the message was Grandfather Rights between to 2 countries would continue to be observed.

Problem is, we don't know what may change as the exchequer tries to balance the books after Covid expenditure. HMRC were issuing T2Ls this year to say boats are in free movement but now say they were exported so, what's next? Withdrawal of personal tax allowances if seen to be resident elsewhere? From the Portuguese perspective, they may decide ongoing free health care may be too expensive and require us to have private cover as do some other States. No-one know what the future holds.

 

[grumpygit]

That's certainly a good point about UK banks, that issue has raised its head in some quarters already. Most of us maintain a UK address for such purposes.

Most of us would never dream of transferring money direct from a UK bank to a (Greek in my case) bank, the exchange rate they offer is abysmal. We already all use intermediaries that offer much better exchange rates.

I absolutely agree that obtaining residency requires being resident. Residency is a physical thing not a lifestyle choice.

Those receiving a UK state pension should apply for an S1 form ASAP and get healthcare in their country of residence, paid for by the NHS. The accompanying documentation makes it clear that NHS health care on visits to the UK will still be free as though you were ordinarily resident there. Permanently returning to the UK simply involves informing them of your return and you revert to normal NHS healthcare.

Your points are important but none of them are showstoppers.

Our stay in Greece this time has probably become extended because of the Covid epidemic, under the circumstances I'm sure we are better off in Greece at the moment rather than in the UK.

I'm not clear on this comment Tony, "Residency is a physical thing not a lifestyle choice" I tend to feel it's a lifestyle choice, definitely a change of lifestyle.
Do you include temporary residency in this statement?

We use our Nationwide at the ATM's for day to day cash, they give a commercial rate and I'm reluctant to draw with the FX's for small amounts or with poor exchange rates.

I may be wrong because things change, but unless I'm mistaken I believe you can have a UK bank account if you are not a UK resident, a cheque book or credit card is not permissible on the account, only a debit card.

Completely correct about the NHS, when returning back to the UK just declare you are returning. You are best doing this as a matter of course on returning to blighty rather than being challenged as it may become awkward if you are found out in the middle of treatment.

Because of remaining in Greece with the Covid I have applied for my S1 over the phone and I am just waiting for my Si to come through the post but I am not sure of my next move in the process authenticating with the Greek Health System.
I take it that the information will come with the letter but any pointers would be appreciated

 

[Alicatt]

The Bank of Scotland has said it will close the accounts of anyone whose main residency is not in the UK, does not matter if you have a UK address, your residency has to be in the UK.

HSBC has said that so far they are not going to close any accounts
Barclay's bank are already closing accounts

 

[nortada]

The Bank of Scotland has said it will close the accounts of anyone whose main residency is not in the UK, does not matter if you have a UK address, your residency has to be in the UK.

HSBC has said that so far they are not going to close any accounts
Barclay's bank are already closing accounts

And if you hold dual residency, how will the BoS decide which is your main residency

 

[Alicatt]

And if you hold dual residency, how will the BoS decide which is your main residency

by checking where you withdraw your money from?

 

[nortada]

by checking where you withdraw your money from?

Interesting idea but what happens when the target takes a large upload of Sterling whilst in the U.K. and then converts it into euros as when they need funding

From observation, we are talking about a very mobile community that regularly travels between the U.K. and the location of their boat, which also changes from time to time and I have personal knowledge of many who fund themselves when in the U.K. Might even be a few on this forum.

Provided that they have a reliable U.K. contact address, why would any bank want to reduce it’s customer base, in the knowledge that another bank/building society will take on that extra trade

 

[Alicatt]

That was my thought too, the BoS does have a non UK resident accounts division, I had a chat with them in 2008 about alternative accounts, at that time remaining where I was was the best option.

Now I'm looking at selling all my assets in the UK, as is my wife, if they make it difficult to conduct business.

 

[nortada]

That was my thought too, the BoS does have a non UK resident accounts division, I had a chat with them in 2008 about alternative accounts, at that time remaining where I was was the best option.

Now I'm looking at selling all my assets in the UK, as is my wife, if they make it difficult to conduct business.

If your bank acts as you fear and decline further business, you won’t have to do anything.

Other open accounts in a more user friendly organisation.

 

[GHA]

Easy enough to get round if you're a cruiser with UK address, use revolute day to day. Might ditch Lloyds anyway though.

UK banks to shut thousands of British expats' accounts – what to do if yours is being closed.

Crypto will be a major day to day thing before too long anyway, no one will know who you are

Bank or credit card provider	Is it closing expats' accounts?	What does it say?
Amex	Unclear	Yet to respond – we'll update this story when we hear back
Bank of Scotland	Yes	Closing accounts from November for Brits living in Germany, Republic of Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal and Slovakia (exact date depends on country and account)
Barclaycard	Yes	Closing accounts on 16 November for all those living in EEA countries who haven't linked their account to a UK residential address
Barclays	Not yet	"We continue to review the services we offer to customers within the EEA"
Co-op Bank	Not yet	"We continue to review our approach for our customers in EEA countries"
Coutts	Yes	Closing all accounts for Brits living in the EEA – date TBC
First Direct	Not yet	No current plans, but monitoring the situation
Halifax	Yes	Closing accounts from November for Brits living in Germany, Republic of Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal and Slovakia (exact date depends on country and account)
HSBC	Not yet	No current plans, but monitoring the situation
Lloyds	Yes	Closing accounts from November for Brits living in Germany, Republic of Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal and Slovakia (exact date depends on country and account)
Nationwide	Not yet	"There is currently no certainty as to any actions we will be required to take"
NatWest/RBS	Not yet	No current plans, but monitoring the situation
Santander	Not yet	No current plans, but monitoring the situation
TSB	Not yet	No current plans, but "may find that in some EEA countries we do not feel able to continue providing certain TSB banking services"