Graham376
Well-known member
Hmmm politicians and their promises...................
If their lips are moving, good chance they're lying.
Schengen 90/180 post Brexit (again... I know!)
- Thread starter syvictoria
- Start date
If their lips are moving, good chance they're lying.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
A very good thread with lots of info. I have been a resident in Sweden for over 20 years. First as an Alien before Sweden joined the EU. I arrived as a trouble shooter for a subsiduary of a large American computer company. Eventually Sweden joined the EU, I married a Swede, we had a child. Because of this varied experience I thought I had joined all the dots, and therefore, knew all I needed to know. Even wrote posts offering advice on this forum.
However, reading this thread has revealed a line of dots I had not joined up or even considered and they are serious. I knew that residency of an EU member state does not include free movement in the other member states and that 90/180 applies. My boat is in Greece and for the past ten years I have travelled there by various means without passing through any border controls whatsoever. Never even saw one because, apart from a visit to UK ten years ago, I stayed (by accident) inside Schengen.
Because I started inside Schengen I thought it was a small risk to overstay 90 days because they had no way to know when I left Sweden to start the 90 day clock. Even if I visited UK outside Schengen it would not matter a jot if I re-entered via Sweden where the 90/180 does not apply to residents in Sweden. So the clock does not start running. That seemed a calculated risk until this thread pointed out that the penalty if caught (possible but not likely) the punishment could be deportation from EU and Schengen (maybe) no re-entry for two years. My house and family are in Sweden Schengen so a ban on re-entry to Schengen would be a catastrophy.
Because I consider some politicians and various other bodies to be basically sub-human Sociopaths as well as Psychopaths who, for the first time in their miserable lives, would actually enjoy obeying the law to the letter, I therefore could not run the risk of never seeing my “home” or family again. Sorry for any advice I may have made on this subject to live below the radar. I was guilty of looking at the problem through my own lens at the time.
However, reading this thread has revealed a line of dots I had not joined up or even considered and they are serious. I knew that residency of an EU member state does not include free movement in the other member states and that 90/180 applies. My boat is in Greece and for the past ten years I have travelled there by various means without passing through any border controls whatsoever. Never even saw one because, apart from a visit to UK ten years ago, I stayed (by accident) inside Schengen.
Because I started inside Schengen I thought it was a small risk to overstay 90 days because they had no way to know when I left Sweden to start the 90 day clock. Even if I visited UK outside Schengen it would not matter a jot if I re-entered via Sweden where the 90/180 does not apply to residents in Sweden. So the clock does not start running. That seemed a calculated risk until this thread pointed out that the penalty if caught (possible but not likely) the punishment could be deportation from EU and Schengen (maybe) no re-entry for two years. My house and family are in Sweden Schengen so a ban on re-entry to Schengen would be a catastrophy.
Because I consider some politicians and various other bodies to be basically sub-human Sociopaths as well as Psychopaths who, for the first time in their miserable lives, would actually enjoy obeying the law to the letter, I therefore could not run the risk of never seeing my “home” or family again. Sorry for any advice I may have made on this subject to live below the radar. I was guilty of looking at the problem through my own lens at the time.
syvictoria
Well-known member
BurnitBlue, if you've been in Sweden for over 20 years, are you not eligible for citizenship and a Swedish passport?
Graham376
Well-known member
I would be surprised if a ban would include country of residence where unlimited stays are allowed. The other point is that transit to/from country of residence doesn't count towards 90/180 so, unless transit only applies to/from country of citizenship, the clock should only be running when in Greece?
steve yates
Well-known member
Well thats just not true is it? Expats UK bank accounts are going to be closed down. UK banks to shut thousands of British expats' accounts – what to do if yours is being closed
steve yates
Well-known member
You mean the same way they are closing branches in towns all over the uk, and restricting opening hours to certain days of the week in others? Totally pissing off their local customers. But consumer banking is not where they make their money, so they couldn't care less about inconveniencing their customers if it improves their cost structure. Those of us who run businesses would all have been bust a long time ago if we treated our client base the way high st banks treat theirs.
steve yates
Well-known member
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Sorry, I am going to be in a similar boat to yourself so feel that pain, but anyone who beleived the promises of that lot of a good deal are deluded.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Yes. Automatic acceptance after five years. Yet after so long in the British Military I am reluctant to turn coat and go nuetral. However, it depends on whether Boris Johnson and his government hold the pride of the UK high and exit the EU in one piece. If he caves I may consider getting a Swedish passport. No drama, no bully-beef, no sand in my boots, just a feeling.
I joined at 15 years of age so indoctrination and propaganda had max effect. I may enquire about dual citizenship, but I will definitely not hand in my British passport.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Very true and it is the time in Greece sailing my boat which must be protected. Adding the travel time from country of residence to Greece is not much use. It is Boat time that is important. Same for portugal residents. Buy a bike and make a big deal out of an enviromently friendly way to travel 6 weeks to boat and six weeks back. Hide the 250cc modular bike engine in the cockpit locker when you get there. Ooops, I 'm getting carried away again!
Banned from Schengen means banned from Schengen. Sweden and Portugal are in Schengen. There are actually many cases where one law is in conflict with another. It needs a test case to resolve. You first.
syvictoria
Well-known member
I posed this question in another thread yesterday, but no one has yet provided an answer. How are you supposed to start and stop your Schengen 'clock' when outside of Sweden when there are no border controls or opportunities to have trips physically recorded/passport stamped?
Graham376
Well-known member
Travelling overland has no border checks but by boat and using marinas they send a copy of boat and crew details to the authorities. What they do with it I haven't a clue.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
There is no passport control between Schengen countries. This means that a third country citizen, resident in a Schengen member state can move around the rest of Schengen with no one any the wiser. He must not enter a non Schengen member state or he will be immediatly clocked. This is why I foolishly advised folk who had residence in Portugal to stop worrying and fly below the radar. I got panned for it so I apologised and changed my advice today. I have not used my passport for ten years since I visited Uk.
However, since Covid, countries are developing a taste for Orwellian control and insisting on advance notice of entry by web page or email with enough details to satisfy Joseph Stalin. They will not surrender that power when Covid becomes history. So freedom of movement will stay but with Big Brother and a mobile phone app to watch over you. For your own safety of course.
syvictoria
Well-known member
I appreciate that there will always be those that try to stay under the radar. But surely there must be a system in place to enable those who wish to stay within the law to do so? After all, this is not a new problem, it's just new to British passport holders. But what is the system (for land based travel)?
nortada
Well-known member
Think we have been here more than once in this forum.
Lots of options and opinions have been offered but the bottom line is we just don't know. Nor, I suspect, do the powers that be.
It is going to be a very steep learning curve for all concerned. Especially, as is normal, different countries will have very different attitudes. Schengen may be a common zone but individual countries manage their national external boarders. I suspect, for obvious reasons, the PIGS may have a different approach to countries in Northern Europe.
Only time will tell.
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syvictoria
Well-known member
With respect, that is simply rubbish - at least in relation to the question asked. We will almost certainly be subject to Schengen rules from 1/1/21. Those rules exist now. Nothing is changing in that respect. My question is, how does someone account for their movements within Schengen when they are travelling over land within the bloc and so not passing through any passport control or similar? Coming from the UK, I will have to pass through passport control at the channel. But what if I took residency in France and then wanted to travel regularly to say Italy?
And what are PIGS? Please tell me that that was not an offensive and completely unwarranted reference to the police/authorities?
RobbieW
Well-known member
Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain - the so called southern, poorer, countries/economies. See PIGS (economics) - Wikipedia & it is considered derogatory
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syvictoria
Well-known member
Thank you. That's a new one to me. I am constantly surprised and dismayed at some of the language used here, and to be fair, on other forums/platforms elsewhere. Sadly, it does not reflect well on any of us.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Sorry. It was a deeper question than it appears. There is no way or requirement to "log" into the various countries en-route once inside Schengen. It is the cornerstone of the system. The requirement is to obey another law and leave volantarily after 90 days if your situation requires it. Trust and the honour system are paramount in a working system or it will get bogged down and choke on its own rules. An example is a supermarket. It is easy to slip goods in your pocket or under your jumper to avois paying. The system would collapse if everyone were to be searched at check-out. It is a risk a shoplifter takes. If caught the punishment should exceed the crime.
nortada
Well-known member
My post is anything but rubbish but it is courteous. Can't say the same for yours.
The title of this tread admits we are visiting the same old ground and poses no questions.
We have gone around and around this discussion with no progress?
Why, because we do not KNOW what will happen so it is hardly rubbish to admit this. Schengen, may or not stay the same but individual countries administration of Schengen could vary. Individual circumstances bring an additional layer of confusion.
You are aware that rather than stand on the side-lines and lob what-if rocks into the pond, some of us have done a lot of research into how Brexit could effect us. Then discuss and share what we find on here, hopefully, for the benefit of all.
If bystanders, albeit, worried bystanders, lob rocks in my direction, I will stop sharing information in open forum.
Sorry you were ignorant of the well known acronym PIGS, which has been in common usage for a number of years. I see Robbie has enlightened you.
Acronyms are used because they are easy to remember.
ps "Honi soit qui mal y pense. Tel qui s'en rit aujourd'hui, s'honorera de la porter."
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