Rounding the UK - safety equipment question.

[CaptainBob]

Hi,

As you can see from my .sig, my fiancee and I are intending to very slowly make our way around the UK over a couple of years, beginning in April 2010.

I've bought a few books which I've been browsing - one of which is Sam Steele's "UK AND IRELAND CIRCUMNAVIGATOR'S GUIDE" ISBN 978-0-7136-8886-3. In this book is a list of required safety equipment - a number of items of which we don't currently have aboard.

Now my quandary is this...

We've been doing coastal hops for a year and a half now. We have always been very very careful to ensure the weather and sea state has been damn near perfect for each such trip - and have cancelled all trips when the forecast looked in the least doubtful. I'm sure this is the same for the large majority of cruising yachts and their crew. Because of this care I've not felt the need to equip the ship with enough safety equipment to cross an ocean (as per Sam Steele's book).

And when we set out in April next year - we'll be working around very very slowly, with no schedule or timescale, and only heading out when the conditions are spot on. So basically just doing little day trips, just as we've done in the past. And with almost zero night hours planned.

So, for instance, does the seriousness of the journey, if done very carefully and slowly, really warrant such things as an Epirb with GPS, a set of battery powered emergency nav lights, a radar, gas powered wire cutters, bolt cutters.

--

While writing this I think I've probably answered my own question. You just never know when conditions might deteriorate - and some of the east coast stretches (we're going anti-clockwise from Plymouth) are going to be quite long - and no item is too expensive if you actually have to use it in anger. But our budget will only stretch so far - compromises will have to be made.

I guess it helps if you know what we do have already. There's a pretty comprehensive list in my blog here:

http://www.yacht-forum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=658

All thoughts and opinions gratefully received.

 

[webcraft]

Sounds good

.
You don't mention jackstays, harnesses and strong points to clip on - but I presume you have these.

Also - wire cutters that will easily deal with your size of rigging (NOT gas powered - completely unnecessary) and an emergency VHF aerial, as you may want to call for assistance if you have just cut your rigging away!

If you are getting a new Garmin chartplotter consider getting an AIS engine to interface to it (only about £100) - this will give you invaluable AIS data when in busy waters.

I would say otherwise you have plenty, especially if you complete your 'to do' and 'to get' lists. Anything else comes into the 'nice to have but not essential' category. If I had spare money I might be tempted to throw the four bulky LJs off to save room and buy a couple of state of the art automatics with straps, sprayhood, light etc - Kru SPort or Spinlock Deckvest would be my choice.

I would also make sure I had a couple of unlocked mobile phones with O2, Orange and Vodaphone PAYG sims as coverage varies around the coast - up here in Scotland anyway. Tuppence off Ebay - go for older Nokias, they have a longer battery life (you can get new batteries). (Vodaphone PAYB dongle for laptop useful as well if you don't have one.)

And a big spotlight and plenty of GOOD torches/headtorches.

Have fun!

- W

 

[dt4134]

I'd be wary of your approach of avoiding anything but ideal conditions. It's easy to do that in short hops on the south coast, but it is always possible you could be taken by surprise when you go further afield. You don't want to be experiencing your first F8 when you're still twelve hours or more from your destination.

I'm not saying be gung-ho about it, but go out and work your way up through the scales so you gain confidence and experience in heavier weather. Find out how your boat handles in such conditions.

The best bit of safety equipment on board is a competent experienced skipper.

 

[Elemental]

I'd be wary of your approach of avoiding anything but ideal conditions. It's easy to do that in short hops on the south coast, but it is always possible you could be taken by surprise when you go further afield. You don't want to be experiencing your first F8 when you're still twelve hours or more from your destination.

I'm not saying be gung-ho about it, but go out and work your way up through the scales so you gain confidence and experience in heavier weather. Find out how your boat handles in such conditions.

I couldn't agree more. Whilst it's usually possible to make sure you don't encounter anything unexpected, the unexpected can (and in my experience often does) happen. I think that before you go you should understand how to deal with your boat in a wide range of conditions above your intended cruising levels. That way you won't have to add fear to the mix of things to contend with. As you said earlier, some of the east coast hops can be quite long. I learned a huge amount about my boat last autumn when I was caught out in 45 knots whilst crossing the channel. So much so that we aborted our planned entry into Ramsgate and continued on our journey - preferring the 'safety' of the sea over inshore waters in the wild conditions. I now understand better how to manage my boat in those conditions and, if forecast, it doesn't scare the pants off me.

The best bit of safety equipment on board is a competent experienced skipper.

Great quote.

 

[nathanlee]

So, for instance, does the seriousness of the journey, if done very carefully and slowly, really warrant such things as an Epirb with GPS, a set of battery powered emergency nav lights, a radar, gas powered wire cutters, bolt cutters.

Depends how scared/bothered you are.

You could buy all the safety equipment known to man, but it's not going to be much use if you're scared stiff. People in every activity love to tell you how dangerous things are, and that you can't do things without x y and z (probably because they read so in a book rather than from experience). It's the same with mountaineering, so many people tell you you need emergency bivi's, food rations, blah blah blah blah, the list is endless, and silly.

It's up to you. Do you feel comfortable taking a risk? It could go wrong, but then again, if the only outcome is everything going perfectly smoothly, then there's not much point doing it is there.

For most of my sailing this summer I didn't have a life raft, for quite a few of the BIG legs, I didn't have a radio, and the handy I had packed up, so I didn't have any radio at all from Blyth northwards.

No jackstays, but I did have safety harness in the cockpit. Extra care was taken when going forward, and I tried to clip on to anything I could find.

My advice is don't listen to what people tell you do or do not need. Decide for yourself. What do you want on board in order to be happy?

P.S. I was much more comfortable when I did finally get a liferaft. It was just nice having it there, but unless I was willing to set off without one (because I couldn't afford it) then I wouldn't have left London. Sometimes, you've just got to bite the bullet and hope it doesn't go tits up. That's my thoughts anyway.

 

[nathanlee]

I'd be wary of your approach of avoiding anything but ideal conditions. It's easy to do that in short hops on the south coast, but it is always possible you could be taken by surprise when you go further afield.

I've got to agree with this too.

My god can a perfect day turn in to an unforecast pain in the arse before you had chance to even make a brew.
I can assure you that you will see weather you really don't want to be in sooner or later, and I can also assure you that it won't be so much as hinted at on the forecast.

I, of course, hope am I totally wrong on both counts in your case

 

[Zephyr362]

We done the same trip last year, the boat was pretty well equiped anyway but fitted a liferaft and EPIRB figuring that there is a lot of water where there are no boats and questionable radio coverage. Many days we did not see other boats out sailing and the cost of a liferaft and EPIRB is pretty low nowadays compared with the rest of the costs.
AIS is a nice to have and made most of the busy sections more interesting and safer as we knew exactly where the bigger boats were going even if we couldn't see them.
RADAR had to be used for a full day in anger. Keeping warm is very important, it's when people get cold and tired that shortcuts then risks are taken which don't always work out.
The weather often deteriorates and as you say some of the legs can be long and the destination is not always bombproof so plan B or C may lead to longer days but safer trip.
Good luck, it's a great place we live in, hopefuly the weather is kind.
Have a look at http://www.sigma362.co.uk/testimonials/testimonials.html for our write up.

 

[Blueboatman]

Re Cap't Bob

What a fun trip

It sounds like you have common sense in Spades.

You can always buy more equipment as you go along. The main thing, imo, is to go, and as you so rightly say, make the weather and seasons your deadlines and not some arbitrary calendar.

After a couple of hundred miles under your belts you will wonder what all the fuss was about.. Good luck.

I just had an RNLI safety inspection of my boat, 'cos an experienced, independent set of eyes will always have something useful to contribute....Well recommended.

 

[temptress]

use the ISAF Offshore Special Regulations as a Guide

I would start by looking at the ISAF Offshore Special Regulations and fitting the boat out to at lease CAT 3. See ISAF Offshore Special Regulations

Most of these have come about from the loss of life because and subsequent enquiries. They are as elevant to pottering as they are to racing.

Although I don't race her we keep Temptress to CAT 1

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I'm putting ideas together for similar trip.

I have heard Sam Steele’s talk about her trip and it was a good presentation with lots of valuable suggestions. Her book contains a lot of valuable advice too.

She will be talking again in January at The Henley Offshore Group, see link
http://www.henleyoffshore.org/events.htm#next_event

I have been considering going from Portsmouth to the SW Eire coastline then back up the Irish sea to the Western Isles and not going right round the top, but spending more time in Western Scottish waters before coming back down the West side of U.K..
Then again, as I draw 1.6M. I was thinking of going anticlockwise to get the least interesting coast with long stages over first, without much stopping.
Otherwise if I had a bilge keeler with shallow draft I reckon that the Dylan Winter 'keep turning left' method would be terrific. See…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq2PEuUFzGo&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=DCCD9E425AB79637
Then again I would always regret not going all the way round… and yet the canals look very interesting in their own right! ????? what problems….. yet good problems to mull over, nevertheless. At least I’m not considering what I have to pack to go to Afganistan…. Poor devils!

What gear? Well many have done it in days gone by with far less gismos than most of us have for a day out on the Solent these days. That said, many of those in the early days of recreational cruising didn’t have caravans on water. The boats themselves would take care of many of them in most situations, despite the fact that RYA courses hadn’t started yet.

So, if you do have an AWB type caravan you may consider only going when the sun does shine and the forecast is guaranteed not to exceed a F3.
So that rules out the North sea, the Irish sea, West coast of Eire and going round ‘the top’. 
Fog and a sudden sea mist is guaranteed somewhere, sometime on a circumnavigation, so with all of us going round at the same time, it may be best to have the radar, ais, and plotter all working.
Now to keep the batteries up without having to use the engine day and night don’t forget the windmill and the panels to get the charge good.

Food. Well probably the best thing is to have a fridge. Possibly you may need a generator too, to supplement the other electrics as a fridge is going to draw in the region of 5amps +, so consider one of those Honda suitcase jobbies to stick in the locker for that.
Mind you, if you take the rod with you to keep up the vitamin E , or is it D? then you will possibly need the fishfinder to show through the plotter too.

How about not worrying much about all this planning and just going out the gate one day as the boat is now, with a packet of sarnies with a coolbox full with tins in the locker and turning the way the wind blows best and just see where you get to in 3 months+ with the odd stop for refreshments?
Now that would be more adventurous wouldn’t it?

 

[CaptainBob]

Thank you for all the replies. Agree with everything said. If finances permit I'm going to sign up to do the coastal skipper practical course to supplement my existing knowlege/experience - and have taken onboard (hehe) comments re equipment. Thanks again.

 

[saxonpirate]

Thank you for all the replies. Agree with everything said. If finances permit I'm going to sign up to do the coastal skipper practical course to supplement my existing knowlege/experience - and have taken onboard (hehe) comments re equipment. Thanks again.

Capt Bob.... I'd refer you to the quotes already noted by JCP....very good advice.

Everything is possible....but not by everybody. Maybe between now and when you intend to set off, it would be a good idea to poke the nose out of the harbour in different weather conditions. I'm not saying sail out into the teeth of a rising gale. Build up slowly.... Force 5 at first, see how you and the boat handle it. Practise heaving to, laying ahull, shortening sail in a blow, navigating while the boats pitching around. Get a few overnight passages in. Venture out on a wet foggy day. I could go on.....but you get my drift. You could do all of this within the Plymouth area.

By all means do your course, but I firmly believe if you stretch your comfort zone by doing the things I've mentioned above, you will start to feel more confident. What's the saying.... "Feel the Fear and do it Anyway"...

Good Luck....

 

[CaptainBob]

To be fair I think I over stressed things a bit in the initial post - to make my point clear.

We've actually been out in 4m near breaking waves, overfalls (due to being forced in to Dodman because of live gunnery firing), squalls, winds which suddenly switched on from 12 knots to 40 knots with no warning (we were under full sail at the time, just East of Salcombe entrance, wind came off the land at about 11am and didn't stop - not forecast, no signs in the sky, weird), anchorages that turned too bouncy in the eve so we relocated, anchorages up rivers, in bays, in harbours, dragging anchors (no more thanks to Rocna) - and have done a really teeny amount of night stuff with some other more experienced folk aboard... so I think we've got more experience than perhaps I gave the impression of. We've been out a hell of a lot in the last year and a half. Have every intention of heading out over the winter though. Rose is doing her Dayskipper theory starting Jan 2010 so a few trips out to practice the theory will be called for.

 

[saxonpirate]

To be fair I think I over stressed things a bit in the initial post - to make my point clear.

We've actually been out in 4m near breaking waves, overfalls (due to being forced in to Dodman because of live gunnery firing), squalls, winds which suddenly switched on from 12 knots to 40 knots with no warning (we were under full sail at the time, just East of Salcombe entrance, wind came off the land at about 11am and didn't stop - not forecast, no signs in the sky, weird), anchorages that turned too bouncy in the eve so we relocated, anchorages up rivers, in bays, in harbours, dragging anchors (no more thanks to Rocna) - and have done a really teeny amount of night stuff with some other more experienced folk aboard... so I think we've got more experience than perhaps I gave the impression of. We've been out a hell of a lot in the last year and a half. Have every intention of heading out over the winter though. Rose is doing her Dayskipper theory starting Jan 2010 so a few trips out to practice the theory will be called for.

Brilliant!! I'm sure you guys will be fine. There's not one of us that knows it all, we're all learning with every new experience. I'll tell you now, if you pull off your UK circumnavigation it'll be quite an achievement, a feather in your cap. If you can sail around the UK with it's incredibly different sailing areas and bloody awful weather...LOL... You can sail anywhere in the world.

Get out and do it...before we are all "Regulated" out of existence.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

To Captain Bob

PM sent

Scotty.

 

[rickym]

My 2ps worth. It is seamanship that keeps you safe not kit. Make sure all your gear can be properly stowed. Spilt milk in the bilge is mildy irritating, breaking your dinner plates a nuisience, an anchor broken loose and trying to bash it's way through the hull somewhat dangerous!

Washboards you can secure, a wave in the cockpit with your boots on is nothing, in shoes just wet feet, down below with your electronics or the charts and soft furnishings!

A deep 3rd reef in the main, consider a storm jib, backup charts to your plotter, a decent almanac and pilot book, learn about the weather and have a couple of different ways to obtain a forecast, a barometer. Know your engine and have a few basic spares, filters impeller, hoses, clips, oil etc and a reasonable toolkit. A decent inflatable and outboard for getting ashore on the remoter or prettier bits. Passage planning and bolt holes. If you have a plan then you won't be supprised by foul tides, headland rips and races or harbours you find you cannot get into because of the state of the tide.

We are planning a similar trip in some 18 months time.

Good luck!

 

[Zephyr362]

Leave plenty of time for the West Coast of Scotland, without doubt it is the best bit. Orkney is worth the effort. Make sure you have some diesel cans, good filter and bug killer. It's not always possible to get your boat to the diesel pump and fuel quality can be an issue. Make sure you nkow how to change fuel filters and rudimentry engine maintenance, there are large areas with little or no yachty support and you will need to service it during the trip.
We picked some dodgy diesel in Ireland and it killed the injectors and blocked two sets of filters. You will go through plenty of fuel.
Backup GPS if you can get a cheap one, our main one packed up just as we were passing Coryvechan and the light was fading fast, Luing has plenty of interesting sights and we didn't want to be one of them so glad we had a backup. Of course good old fashioned chartwork (we took Imray C series for the whole UK) is the final backup and shouldn't be overlooked.
Navtex (McMurdo) was useful recording the weather forecasts in the early hours when hopefully you're sleeping.
Get some practice in to get used to the longer days required to cover the distances needed, you'll soon get into the swing of it. We'd jump at the chance of doing it again!

 

[William_H]

Re Jackstays

To be totally safe from MOB you need harnesses with 2 tethers. You need jackstays or strong points that will be positioned such that you can not go overboard. This will normally dictate jackstays or strong points near the centre line. To give you max manouvreability without extending beyond the lifelines. Especially at cabin sides and on bow.
Washboard s that can be locked in place. Openable from iside or outside.
As said an emergency VHF antenna on stern rail.
good luck olewill

 

[Krusty]

............
The best bit of safety equipment on board is a competent experienced skipper.

The next-best bit of safety equipment is a fully competent crew!
Do involve your sailing partner as much as possible in everything you learn and experience yourself.
Self-confidence, based on competence, is vital, and so is mutual-confidence.

Keep in touch: you will have quite a number of interested and willing supporters at many places on your route.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Looking through the list so far I have most of the bits mentioned onboard.

One of the most important pieces of kit to prevent fatigue at one time or another may be a wind vane.
I have a Monitor fitted and believe me it can be better sometimes than another couple of competant crew.