Rounding Lands End?

[PacketRat]

Would anyone care to offer any experiences of rounding Lands End, North to South?

I'm OK from Liverpool to Milford Haven, and the Lizard to Plymouth. The bit in the middle is unknown to me. The almanac refers to a one hour tidal gate.

It will be early April. Any advice?

 

[oldbilbo]

There will be plenty offering 'times to leave here' and 'time to arrive there', and references to the tidal stream atlas. All valid, I s'pose.

I've been that way more than a few times over the years, and know you will be plugging a foul tide for much of the way, until safely around the corner and tucked up in Newlyn/Mouz'l/Penzance. Do try to arrange your day so that you have a fair ebb to help you down past Cape Cornwall, the Armed Knight and the Longships.... in daylight. The North Cornish Coast gets full-on Atlantic weather and seas, and there is next to no shelter, except.....

I'd certainly aim to stop over at Padstow and get some sleep, then transit down the iron-bound N Cornish coast at least 4 miles off. As often as not, I'd track initially as if to pass halfway between the Isles of Scilly and Lan'zen, then aim to run south to give me an offing of about 5 miles.... then, if wind and weather and everything else is working out, turn SE so as to pass at least a couple of miles clear of the Longships light, and Gwennap Head. It's less than an hour after that to Newlyn, a pint, and some good fish 'n chips.

Yes, one could pass inshore of the Longships, Kettles Bottom, Lee Ore AND the Runnel Stone.... but all the coves around there are littered with the bones of hundreds of ships, large and small, that cut the corner and somehow got a line round the rudder, or rolled by a big sea, or had engine, mast, sails, whatever failure. I can think of no-where around the British Isles where 'keeping a good offing' is more relevant.

So, Newlyn for preference. Then across Mounts Bay to round the Lizard - again, giving yourself 'a good offing'. There are no prizes for failing to arrive. The choice then becomes heading up towards Falmouth - keeping well east of the Manacles, whose East Cardinal Mark is surprisingly difficult to see - or heading on NE towards Plymouth, with Fowey as a bolt-hole if tired, troubled or just curious.

 

[PacketRat]

Brilliant, oldbilbo. Thanks. It's the kind of thing I was hoping for, a narrative that I can mull over with the charts and almanac.

There was a time when I could see the Manacles from my bedroom window, and Lyme Regis to Falmouth I've done in a dinghy. But North Cornwall or Mounts Bay, these are the kind of places I wouldn't choose to visit. It was four years after I left the area that the Penlee Lifeboat disaster happened. It shocked me then and still does. That day, not even the Sennen Cove lifeboat could get round Lands End, not even to try and rescue the crew of the Solomon Browne.

It sure makes you stop and think, does it not?

 

[Gwylan]

What Old Bilbo said. But........

You can hide in St Ives for a kip and so on . Do not go too near in, you can find yourself having an awful time with reflections off the beach.
Or you can go off Lund. Padstow and you risk being stuck for a tide.

Aim to be at Runnel by HWD+5 that sort of fixes your departure from St Ives. Also assumes that you are going inside.

We've done it in March and April and it has been everything from sublime to terrifying! Brilliant sunshine and like driving the boat through a demon car wash.
There is no where to hide and you are committed to Newlyn at least. Anchor of Mousehole, but it's the same difference.

This is a daylight route and only in the best of weather. Be prepared to go around the outside and all the extra time that needs.

 

[CPD]

I can offer no direct experience, but " ......... I can think of no-where around the British Isles where 'keeping a good offing' is more relevant." would absolutely be my initial thoughts also ......

 

[alant]

I can offer no direct experience, but " ......... I can think of no-where around the British Isles where 'keeping a good offing' is more relevant." would absolutely be my initial thoughts also ......

Just looking at the forbidding Longships, always puts the s.hits up me each time around, going north or south.
Even in good calm weather it looks evil.

 

[PacketRat]

Gwylan, CPD, alant. Your posts are helpful and much appreciated. Thank you.

 

[PacketRat]

My yardstick is Milford Haven to Baltimore, see photo, logged as 83 hours for 190 miles on the rhumb line via Fastnet.

Plan A) is Milford Haven to Falmouth direct (150 miles). (Longships is 110 miles from M.H.).

Plan B) would have to be the long way round, out past the Scillies (240 miles).

Plan C) is some combination of Padstow, St Ives, Mousehole, Newlyn etc.

Those are the main options, I think.

Plan C is the ideal trip. If the weather is kind enough (Scouse Mouse is engineless now), the boat well prepared (no more jobs to do before the start of the "race") and with plenty of time in hand, this would be a great trip.

Plan A is good if the wind is vaguely Northerly and up to 6 or 7 max.

Plan B is the backstop if the weather deteriorates on passage. The bugbear is the TSS. It limits the sea room off Land's End to four miles. Now, if I can't safely use the inshore traffic zone, I'm sure I can't keep inside the 25 mile long, 3 mile wide TSS corridor. So, it's all or nothing. The offing for Land's End has to be either: 3 miles maximum, or 50 miles minimum.

 

[oldbilbo]

Don't lose sight of the fact that the Isles of Scilly themselves offer several good anchorages, and the opportunity to catch up on some sleep, while waiting for clearer weather to head on east towards Plymouth.

I've been in/around these isles a fair few times over the years, and hope to visit again a fair few times before I'm done, but I would discourage you from trying an engineless approach from a westerly quadrant. There are miles of jagged reefs on that side, and the complex tide streams set into and through 'em. Not a place to be in poor viz. and without an engine....

 

[PacketRat]

...Isles of Scilly...

I hadn't thought of stopping there, but I'll read it up and bear it in mind.

It will all depend on the weather, so the more options the better.

 

[oldbilbo]

I'd certainly encourage you to have the Isles of Scilly options up your sleeve, both for your transit towards Plymouth AND should you require a haven if coming back, unplanned, from further SW.....

Here's a diagram of the whole archipelago...

I'd encourage you to be very aware of the Seven Stones reef(s) some 6nm NE of the main isles.


As for anchorages one could readily enter under sail only, I'd have in mind New Grimsby Sound ( from N or NW ),

...or, from the S or SW, I'd be looking at hooking in The Cove, between St Agnes and Gugh.

Note the helpful view/diagram of the approach to Old Grimsby Harbour, with decent anchor-holding on the west side and Visitors Mooring buoys on the east.

 

[PacketRat]

Ooh yes, very nice. My chart is too large scale for such small anchorages, but it does now have two broad and dark pencilled arrows! I haven't checked the almanac yet.

Straight in, straight out and sheltered from all but a very narrow angle, they look great. In terms of distance, they are really well placed. Offshore, it makes a lot of difference to me how many fishing boats or patrolling Royal Navy frigates take a kindly interest in my welfare. Keeping a lookout for lights appearing on the horizon and keeping a beady eye on nearby boats for long periods; these are two completely different things, and relatively short trips can be exhausting. At a hundred and odd miles from S W Wales, these anchorages could prove invaluable.

I like this idea very much.

 

[oldbilbo]

Er, not that one should think I am encouraging such - but there are decent pubs adjacent to both anchorages.....

 

[Daydream believer]

I did a SH round England in 2012. I only had Imray passage charts which did not even show Newlyn.
So in Newlyn I found the roughest pub I could ( story in itself)
I then spent 2 nights drinking there until I got to speak to some local fisherman.
My first concern was how to interpret Reeds tidal data for the inshore route
2 fishermen simply said " We've been fishing here for years & we have'nt a clue where the tide runs"

My next problem was " Could I get round inside Longships"
"Of course, all you have to remember is to keep in close & if you see a rock do not hit it & if you cannot see one then there is not one there so do not worry" was the advice

Just as I was leaving a chap I had given assistance to & advice with his berthing in a catamaran insisted he wanted to give me a chart as way of thank you. This actually confirms that there is really quite an easy passage.

Apart from fog as I crossed the Bristol Channel, & a considerable bout of sea sickness, the journey to Milford Haven ( gave padstow a miss to avoid having to get tides right) was a doddle & took circa 22 hours with a head wind across the BC

 

[PacketRat]

Nice

...the journey to Milford Haven was a doddle & took circa 22 hours...

Have you got a Sunseeker or something? Fair play.

I'm planning on taking longer, but the information you provide is a great help. Thanks.

Quite a trip. Congratulations.
Robin.

 

[PacketRat]

...there are decent pubs adjacent to both anchorages.....

They look great on Google Earth. Even the weather is fantastic! Incidentally, Google Earth says all the ferries - Roscoff, Cherbourg and Le Havre - to Ireland - pass West of the Scillies. Interesting.

It might be heresy on here, but I'm definitely getting a smartphone with GPS and internet. Not for navigational use, of course.

 

[oldbilbo]

Here's a wee bit more on turning the corner...

I had a conversation this evening with a committed Jester, who was sucked down, round and through this quite notorious corner by the tide-stream.... then sucked back again.... before the next tide helped him and he finally got round, away and clear. Yes, it was light weather and there was no ocean swell. Consider what it would have been like in dense seafog and with a big swell off the Atlantic, breaking heavily every now and then.

Yes, there IS a passage inshore of the Longships. I've used it several times. It has numerous pinnacle rocks - Shark's Fin ( drying 3.4 ), Fillis ( drying 0.9 ) and Kettle's Bottom itself. The inshore passage is about 0.5nm wide. Take it from me, the tidal currents there swirl every which way. Should one pick up a pot-line around the rudder and prop, strike something hard and part a cap shroud, lose the engine when there's no breeze.... then it could take as little as 12-15 minutes before being cast ashore - no, wrecked - on the granite cliffs immediately to the east..... Like hundreds of vessels around there, large and small, over the centuries.

They didn't have the time to sort out whatever it was that crippled them before the hard rocks reached up for them. It's a story as old as ships and the sea - especially there.

Me? These days I prefer 'a good offing'. Unless I can see very clearly and I have both wind and tide in my favour, I'll enjoy the scenery from further out, thanks. Same thing with the Runnel Stone.

My job is to identify risks to the vessel and her people - then avoid them. Comprehensibly. I've nothing to prove....

 

[PacketRat]

Here's a wee bit more ....

According to my newly found fount of all wisdom, Google Earth, all the France-Ireland ferry routes - Roscoff, Cherbourg and Le Havre - all of them pass to the West of the Scillies. They do that for a reason, and I'm not planning on doing a Schettino salute. I appreciate your point. Fully.

I had hoped some Baltimore JCers would give us some write-ups on this forum. It's a good forum all right, no complaints, but it does seem the best bits are missing.

 

[Daydream believer]

I'd certainly encourage you to have the Isles of Scilly options up your sleeve, both for your transit towards Plymouth AND should you require a haven if coming back, unplanned, from further SW.....

I find it odd that you would recommend going to the Scillies yet not the shorter inshore passage round Lands End
I had thought of going to the Scillies but a look at the chart ( agreed not an in depth look) put me off
Having sailed into some of the French ports on the opposite side of the Channel plus the Raz Du Sein & Chenal Du Four I rather found Lands End a bit less stressful
-But they were not the subjct of this thread !!
I admit I have only done Lands End once & in mild conditions but will do it again this year.
Your post now has me wondering whether I am just lucky- still a bit of luck always comes in handy

 

[oldbilbo]

DDB'r, my good sir, it's remarkably easy for one to grasp 'the wrong end of the stick' from a cursory read of stuff on the internet - and a good example of that occurs here. Let me try a little harder....

My suggestion, made above, is that it may be helpful to shape one's initial course on passage south from, say, the vicinity of Lundy so that heading into the Isles of Scilly - for shelter, sleep, or to fix something - remains an equal option with turning the corner by running close in down the North Cornish coast..... delaying the commitment until much closer, then considering the weather, the forecast, the sea state, the state of the boat and oneself, etc., before making the decision.

It retains an option. I like options. As a one-time pro navigator paid by HM Queen to squire young and feckless pilots around the European skies, and return 'em safely to their mums at night, I made a practice of having options 'up my sleeve'. But that's me....

I'm stuffed full of old aphorisms, which I mumble to myself, to the schoolboy delight and occasional rage of my fellows. Here's one... "The land claims more ships than the sea."

And that corner continues to claim passing yachtsmen....