Re-filling the gas

[Sneaky Pete]

Just reading a thread regarding the difficulty in re-filling certain sizes of gas bottles and the subsequent cost. Calor and Flogas seem to be the suppliers, however I use Gaslow for my motorhome, a refillable system from the petrol/diesel stations, Gaslow comes in 2.4kg 6kg and 11kg sizes. Would it not be easier to set up some kind of re-fill system in the boot of car or back of van to have a low cost re-fill system for boat. I pay 79.9 per litre for gas, I can fill two 11kg bottles for about £24.

 

[B27]

How much do most people actually spend on gas in a season?
We're still using a camping gaz bottle filled last year, so the comedy price we pay per kg or kWh is not enough to make buying a refillable bottle that attractive, given that lpg in petrol stations seems to be in decline.
I'm sure some people manage more nights away than we do, and some people seem to fry 3 meals a day aboard, while we are eating more stuff that doesn't take a lot of cooking.

I also suspect many yachts lose more gas to slow leaks than they actually burn.

 

[ylop]

Would it not be easier to set up some kind of re-fill system in the boot of car or back of van to have a low cost re-fill system for boat.

you can buy refillable tanks designed to be filled at LPG points in petrol stations. They aren’t cheap, need you to go to the special LPG stations (which are not ubiquitous and may not like you using a tank that is not in a vehicle).

How much do most people actually spend on gas in a season?
We're still using a camping gaz bottle filled last year, so the comedy price we pay per kg or kWh is not enough to make buying a refillable bottle that attractive, given that lpg in petrol stations seems to be in decline.
I'm sure some people manage more nights away than we do, and some people seem to fry 3 meals a day aboard, while we are eating more stuff that doesn't take a lot of cooking.

we get a bit over 2 weeks of fairly constant use (most meals aboard) from a Campinggaz 907, cooking for 4 people. Roughly £45 a fill, v £160 for an empty refillable, which will cost about £5 to fill. So would need 5 refills to save money - no brainer if you use the boat constantly less clear cut for others - especially as the availability probably means you still carry a spare 907 for when the tank runs out.

 

[ProDave]

Some that have big 47Kg bottles for domestic use at home, find it a simple matter to re fill smaller bottles from those.

 

[rotrax]

With a twenty quid connector pipe and a new 15 kilo Calor Propane cylinder I easily got 3 kilo's of gas into an empty Calor 3.9 cylinder.

My old racing mate Bob, a refrigeration specialist, told me by cooling the reciver and warming the donor, I could have got more liquid gas in.

That is what he does when decanting refrigerant gasses. Something he frequently does, and has done for years.

Now Calor are taking the piss, I am sorted. The 3 kilo self filled bottle lasted four weeks on our recent five week cruise. Assuming I can get four fills from the 15 kilo donor bottle, £12.50 a fill. If I can get five, a tenner a fill.

Watch this space for further reports - going to do the second fill of the empty cylinder later today.

 

[harvey38]

My old racing mate Bob, a refrigeration specialist, told me by cooling the reciver and warming the donor, I could have got more liquid gas in.

And when the 'Reciver' warms up, there's a possibility it is now overfilled and a rather messy ending

No thanks, I'll stick to Safefill.

 

[fredrussell]

…Watch this space for further reports - going to do the second fill of the empty cylinder later today.

We’ll listen for a bang!

Joking aside, I fill my own too. The best way to know when receiving bottle is full is by using scales to weigh it. The empty (tare) weight is stamped on an alloy disc at top of cylinder.

 

[ProDave]

And when the 'Reciver' warms up, there's a possibility it is now overfilled and a rather messy ending

No thanks, I'll stick to Safefill.

The whole point of DIY filling is you weigh the cylinder as it is filling, and knowing the tare weight of the cylinder you stop filling when you reach 3.9Kg or sooner.

It is actually very hard to over fill one.

 

[Bav32]

The whole point of DIY filling is you weigh the cylinder as it is filling, and knowing the tare weight of the cylinder you stop filling when you reach 3.9Kg or sooner.

It is actually very hard to over fill one.

And if you did overfill a smaller container,, you can reverse the process by swapping the process using the receiver as the donor. Its gravity not pressure.

 

[DJE]

With a twenty quid connector pipe and a new 15 kilo Calor Propane cylinder I easily got 3 kilo's of gas into an empty Calor 3.9 cylinder.

My old racing mate Bob, a refrigeration specialist, told me by cooling the reciver and warming the donor, I could have got more liquid gas in.

That is what he does when decanting refrigerant gasses. Something he frequently does, and has done for years.

Now Calor are taking the piss, I am sorted. The 3 kilo self filled bottle lasted four weeks on our recent five week cruise. Assuming I can get four fills from the 15 kilo donor bottle, £12.50 a fill. If I can get five, a tenner a fill.

Watch this space for further reports - going to do the second fill of the empty cylinder later today.

How much was the 15 kilo bottle?

 

[lustyd]

How much do most people actually spend on gas in a season?

I spent £0 on lipstick every year for the last 43 years. It's amazing the savings you can make if you don't use things.

 

[Sneaky Pete]

Are the 907 size bottles still available?

 

[Sneaky Pete]

How much do most people actually spend on gas in a season.

Everything is relative. I suppose it all depends on how often you use gas.

 

[rotrax]

Why

And when the 'Reciver' warms up, there's a possibility it is now overfilled and a rather messy ending

No thanks, I'll stick to Safefill.

Why would it overfill with all the due care and attention lavished on it while carrying out the operation? My mate Bob has designed, patented and built rigs for filling new refrigeration units with gas during factory production of freezer and refrigerator cabinets. He advised on method and checked my system. After warming the donor and cooling the reciever the transfer was far more effective. My first fill, without warming and cooling the cylinders only got 2.9 kilos in the reciever.

The empty cylinder - valve opened fully to expell ALL the gas - weighs 5.4 kilos.

Twenty minutes of connection to the donor cylinder, in the sun, wrapped in a black bin liner with the recieving cylinder cooled in a container of water with two large freezer packs in it and its weight remained steady at 9.1 kilos on the bathroom scales after twenty minutes.

9.1 minus 5.4 equals 3.7.

Calor get 3.9 kilos of liquid gas in. My cylinder would not take more than 3.7 kilos, however long it was connected to the donor.

It is not Brain Surgery, after all.

My local Calor Depot exchanged an empty 3.9 for a 15 kilo cylinder at a cost of £50.00.

I will save £80.00 on the old Calor 3.9 price of £26.00 X5. The fills work out at £10.00 each and take 20 minutes, done outside.

True Knowlege is the Product of Direct Experience.

 

[rotrax]

How much was the 15 kilo bottle?

£50.00, Exchanged for a spare empty 3.9.

To answer B27's question on gas usage, we used 3 Calor 3.9 Propane cylinders last season, preparing for and taking our 5 month trip to the East and North coasts of Ireland. We anchor a lot and rarely have access to shorepower. While we have gas we use it for boiling the kettle for drinks, washing up and washing. We do have an 8KW Generator which is used for a tank of hot water for taking a shower and, while running, we use the excess power for cooking. We eat most meals on board and cook good meals daily.

Our boat is quite sophisticated and has two large fridges, a freezer, microwave, 2 plate halogen hob, electric flat grill, toaster, electric kettle, two burner gas hob, oven and grill, instant pot pressure cooker and a small air fryer. Oh, a small washing machine too.

We are almost as comfortable aboard as at home, but with a daily sea view.

 

[andsarkit]

And if you did overfill a smaller container,, you can reverse the process by swapping the process using the receiver as the donor. Its gravity not pressure.

Just had my first attempt filling a Calor 4.5kg from a Calor 15kg which stopped with about 3kg transferred however long I waited. I warmed the donor bottle with a towel and kettle and went away for an hour. When I came back I had transferred 5.5kg and the receiver bottle was completely full. I tried to reverse the process raising the receiver and using a hot towel but didn't have any success and resorted to venting the excess 1kg. Rather wasteful but still much cheaper than buying 907s.
It seems that there is a critical point with the temperature of the two bottles when the flow suddenly gets going. Next time I will keep a much closer watch on the weight of the receiving bottle and stop at the correct point.
This is useful confirmation that 4.5/5.5 = 81% which is the recommended maximum fill percentage.

 

[SaltyC]

£50.00, Exchanged for a spare empty 3.9.

To answer B27's question on gas usage, we used 3 Calor 3.9 Propane cylinders last season, preparing for and taking our 5 month trip to the East and North coasts of Ireland. We anchor a lot and rarely have access to shorepower. While we have gas we use it for boiling the kettle for drinks, washing up and washing. We do have an 8KW Generator which is used for a tank of hot water for taking a shower and, while running, we use the excess power for cooking. We eat most meals on board and cook good meals daily.

Our boat is quite sophisticated and has two large fridges, a freezer, microwave, 2 plate halogen hob, electric flat grill, toaster, electric kettle, two burner gas hob, oven and grill, instant pot pressure cooker and a small air fryer. Oh, a small washing machine too.

We are almost as comfortable aboard as at home, but with a daily sea view.

I am slightly remote from the problem, I use 7kg Calor bottles which at the moment / foreseeable future are / will be still available.
I work on a full bottle lasting 4 to 5 weeks, so costs in the Grand sheme of Yotty ownership not great, however, as I sail in the Permafrost regions of the UK ie North of Bristol / M4, the oven gets a lot of use! Need comfort food, aka stews etc on entering harbour.

 

[ylop]

Are the 907 size bottles still available?

Yes. Not quite as easy to find as they should be but not as hard as everyone seems to make out either. There is also a competitor with a jazzy yellow variety the same size. However if you actually used a lot of gas (like a live aboard) it would be expensive.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

we use a 907 campinggaz cylinder every 2 to 3 weeks, so thats. 3 or 4 cylinders a year as we like to eat well onboard for the 10 to 12 weeks afloat

We probably use one or two 3.9 Kg calor propane in the van as its more cramped and often pub near we stop

For both boat and van, the size of cylinder is a major problem and we cannot readily go to 7kg calor so refill strategy is attractive

 

[Birdseye]

Some that have big 47Kg bottles for domestic use at home, find it a simple matter to re fill smaller bottles from those.

thats what I have been doing for years now.