Re-filling the gas

[lustyd]

What prevents a competent commercial 3rd party refilling Camping Gaz cylinders?

They’d have nowhere to sell them. Calor own the cages at most retail locations.

 

[B27]

They’d have nowhere to sell them. Calor own the cages at most retail locations.

Indeed, that's part of the infrastructure we're paying for.
The £40 price of exchanging a cylinder is not just the gas, it's the service of providing it and all the other things which have been mentioned in this thread.
The overheads of selling you a 907 refill are probably much the same as for 20kg of gas.
It's still a lot of money, but that's retail, same as £3 for a cup of coffee or whatever.

 

[dgadee]

In Greece you get offered camping gaz replacements which are badly rusted - particularly the bottom ring.

In Spain I was offered 907 cylinders painted purple.

It's a wild world out there.

 

[lustyd]

Indeed, that's part of the infrastructure we're paying for.

I disagree, that's their way to lock in the customers and prevent competition.

 

[B27]

I disagree, that's their way to lock in the customers and prevent competition.

I'd guess that Flogas, HandyGas and all the other competition have looked at the market and seen it's a lot of agro to serve leisure users who buy on average one bottle of gas every year. The competition now for low volume users is disposable cartridges. Camping Gaz used to be the biggest player in that, but there's dozens of brands now.

 

[skipperob]

UK prices for anything by CampinGaz just make me angry. So much so that I've removed the entire gas installation from my boat, there being a space allocated previously to gas cylinders which was made to fit and is only large enough for two 907's. I'd rather pay for diesel, for which there is at least some sort of competitive market. I'll buy a couple of fast-charging AGM batteries and a secondhand 150 amp alternator, which once I've wired it all in with the necessary circuitry will power my 800watt inverter. That will run a small electric oven and (but not at the same time) various other low-wattage appliances both 12v and 220v which I've found online. This is a very brief account of what I'll do ; just to save the time of anyone who wants to warn me about all the Terrible Obstacles which I'll encounter ! What I'll have in the end is freedom from CampinGaz ! That, to me, is worth all the upheaval. I was a devoted CampinGaz user for more then thirty years. No more !

 

[lustyd]

I'd guess that Flogas, HandyGas and all the other competition have looked at the market and seen it's a lot of agro to serve leisure users who buy on average one bottle of gas every year. The competition now for low volume users is disposable cartridges. Camping Gaz used to be the biggest player in that, but there's dozens of brands now.

Nope, FloGas are gradually winning over retailers who are sick of Calor. It's a slow change though, and if you read back the last couple of years of threads on here with customers and retailers appologising for Calor's behaviour it seems even weirder. Such reluctance to ditch a terrible supplier who has been abusing customer relationships for years now.

 

[Pete7]

UK prices for anything by CampinGaz just make me angry. So much so that I've removed the entire gas installation from my boat, there being a space allocated previously to gas cylinders which was made to fit and is only large enough for two 907's. I'd rather pay for diesel, for which there is at least some sort of competitive market. I'll buy a couple of fast-charging AGM batteries and a secondhand 150 amp alternator, which once I've wired it all in with the necessary circuitry will power my 800watt inverter. That will run a small electric oven and (but not at the same time) various other low-wattage appliances both 12v and 220v which I've found online. This is a very brief account of what I'll do ; just to save the time of anyone who wants to warn me about all the Terrible Obstacles which I'll encounter ! What I'll have in the end is freedom from CampinGaz ! That, to me, is worth all the upheaval. I was a devoted CampinGaz user for more then thirty years. No more !

Good luck, we have done the same.

 

[Whaup367]

They’d have nowhere to sell them. Calor own the cages at most retail locations.

Despite which, yellow Flogas bottles can be spotted in at least some marina gas cages alongside the bigger reds & blues. Calor don't appear to be stopping all retailers (if any?) from using the cages for Flogas dumpies.

 

[Mister E]

Flogas also own some of the cages and also try to stop retailers selling flogas and calor.
Yes calor are worse than useless but flogas are as bad in their own way.

 

[jaminb]

Assuming you are talking of a propane hose, here for £15.99 Propane 20" Pigtail Hose Pipe LPG For Calor Gas Changeover Caravan Motorhome POL 5055571823782 | eBay

Thanks ProDave worked a treat. Managed to get 3kg in my 3.9kg bottle using a partially used 6kg bottle. Got 2.5kg in with gravity but needed to make a jacket of ice packs to cool the receptor bottle to get another 0.5kg in. Happy with that - cant understand why re-balancing bottles is not allowed.

I wonder if you can get a service kit for the bottle valves, although i suspect they will last many seasons before that is needed.

 

[Birdseye]

I disagree, that's their way to lock in the customers and prevent competition.

Thats the objective of every business. Competition isnt desireable to a businessman. Monopoly is!

 

[ProDave]

Flogas also own some of the cages and also try to stop retailers selling flogas and calor.
Yes calor are worse than useless but flogas are as bad in their own way.

I stumbled upon as really helpful gas supplier recently. He does not advertise much and is off the beaten track in an industrial estate. Most of his business is industrial gasses, CO2 etc, but he stocks Calor, Flogas and J gas. And he was remarkably helpful with my quest to swap calor cylinder sizes which other calor dealers have refused me.

 

[Boathook]

Thanks ProDave worked a treat. Managed to get 3kg in my 3.9kg bottle using a partially used 6kg bottle. Got 2.5kg in with gravity but needed to make a jacket of ice packs to cool the receptor bottle to get another 0.5kg in. Happy with that - cant understand why re-balancing bottles is not allowed.

I wonder if you can get a service kit for the bottle valves, although i suspect they will last many seasons before that is needed.

Gravity alone does work, but as the receiving bottle fills up it does get slower.
I have never needed to use an ice pack but have used damp clothes on the receiving bottle.

 

[rotrax]

Gravity alone does work, but as the receiving bottle fills up it does get slower.
I have never needed to use an ice pack but have used damp clothes on the receiving bottle.

Following a tip on here I put the donor bottle in the sun, connected to the reciever which I stood in a container of cold water with a couple of large freezer packs in it. I then wrapped the donor bottle-a 13 kilo one-in a black bin liner.

Speeded the process up a treat!

 

[rotrax]

Just filled another Calor 3.9 Propane from the 13 kilo donor - which, after 4 fills must be pretty close to MT now.

Donor upside down, in the sun, covered with a black bin liner. Reciever in a small container full of water with two freezer packs in it.

When the reciever reached negative bouyancy I disconnected it, vented the pipe and then weighed the reciever. 3.6 kilos of liquid gas inside.

Thats good enough for me at £12.50 per fill-and I might yet get a partial fill from the Donor. I can hear liquid sloshing around inside when I shake it.

That will bring the cost downeven more!

 

[jaminb]

Have I identified a possible problem with refilling my gas bottles?

My kettle, which obviously I never clean, has a very sooty bottom. I don't recall ever having sooty deposits on the stove or where I have poured it pre DIY home brew filling. Coincidence or poor mix of gas from the donor bottle?

 

[Boathook]

Sometimes the air mix alters on the burner or maybe something has hit the burner and affected the flame. Have you looked at the flame without any kettle covering it and seen what colour it is burning at ?

 

[chrishscorp]

All you have done is transfer lpg from one bottle to another I cant see how you have altered anything, I would think its possibly some crud in one of the burners

You do have a working CO monitor onboard ?

 

[jaminb]

thanks both. Didn't notice any damage. Neither the gas or CO alarms have gone off.

Does LPG 'separate' between liquid and gas?