Princess 43

[Magnum]

But you'd need to replace props to gain the benefit and you'd have no warranty on 70K worth of engines.

Props would only need to be changed if an increase in top speed was desired. Agreed on the warranty although the Chip Express units are plug and play and removable without a trace. However, I'm still not convinced.

I'd really love to hear from another 43 D6 owner.

 

[Latestarter1]

I don't think anyone is disputing the Cummins is a more powerful engine than a chipped D6. But the chipped engine will produce more torque with all the benefits that gives.

The Cummins options is +£30K and crucially there isn't a boat available with this option now.

The informed people I spoke to simply said that QSB 'made' the 43 and it was commented that the option pricing would hold up in the used market.

Owners of at least two 43's with D6's have upgraded to new boats the QSB option, if looking in here they would be the right people to give an honest opinion particularly as there is so much money sloshing around at dealer level.

As to chipping a D6 no not even consider it, even with re-prop.

This is little to do with published power/torque numbers but more to do with the WAY the engines delver the power.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Had a client who was gonna by a hardly used 43 with D6. According to his words with those engines she is a pig, and he would not touch it with a stick. since this boat did 27.5 knots with medium low load in the med.
He also advised that the boat was very difficult to keep on plane at around 15 knots.

 

[curiouskb]

Props would only need to be changed if an increase in top speed was desired. Agreed on the warranty although the Chip Express units are plug and play and removable without a trace. However, I'm still not convinced.

I'd really love to hear from another 43 D6 owner.

I am perfectly happy with my P43 with D6 cruising at 20 knots at 3000rpm, which is fine for me. No problem at all getting on the plane. There is another P43 in my marina with Cummins and the difference is 2 or 3 knots top speed . There was a good test report by Nick in the now defunct Motor Boats Monthly.

 

[Magnum]

I am perfectly happy with my P43 with D6 cruising at 20 knots at 3000rpm, which is fine for me. No problem at all getting on the plane. There is another P43 in my marina with Cummins and the difference is 2 or 3 knots top speed . There was a good test report by Nick in the now defunct Motor Boats Monthly.

Thank you. Could you please confirm your top speed?

 

[curiouskb]

Glad to. Clean hull, lightly loaded, just top 27 knots. More like 25+ knots WOT with a few people on board and 3/4 tank fuel and water. I usually cruise serenely at 20 knots only as 27 knots at choppy sea just too bumpy to my liking.

 

[curiouskb]

Forgot to add. I live in the tropics with high ambient sea and air temperature. Obviously this may affect significantly the engine performance when compared to the UK.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Props would only need to be changed if an increase in top speed was desired. .

Hi Magnum, I trust you are well. Welcome back from the dark side! I hesitate to say this because you're an experienced boat owner and know your own mind but I can't see the point of chipping the D6s for more power (and torque) when speccing the QSB6.7s will do exactly that. Not only that but your warranty is not voided and the boat is probably worth more when you sell it. The QSB6.7 is a well proven engine (not only in the boating industry) and for me choosing it for the 43 over the D6s is a bit of a no brainer

I also can't see the point in chipping the D6s if you're not then going to fiddle about with the props because you're going to have to do that to optimise the extra power and torque

Anyway good to see you back and it looks like another new boat build thread is on its way!

 

[Latestarter1]

Magnum,

If you look at U.S boat tests they very often quote time to get on the plane which is a very good measure of vessel performance, top end is a little meaningless.

From memory P43 with QSB's gets on the plane from dead in the water in a smidge under 7 seconds. D6 figure clean with half tanks and would be a good measure for comparison.

 

[petem]

Ah well, Magnum you were bound to eventually see sense and return to the dark side!

Anyhow, I can only see 'chipping' causing grief and I'm surprised that you are even considering this. If you think the engines might be under powered then get bigger ones. Simple really.

 

[rafiki_]

I've never understood the thought that "chipping" an engine is a good idea. Having spent many years in the auto industry and consultancy, I know how much time and effort goes into calibrating and validating engines. How much time and effort goes into chipping? The truck engine suppliers are having a difficult time with warranties, as some operators have chipped their diesels to get better fuel consumption, only to result in premature failure, then bleat at the supplier about warranties. I know you are considering chipping for better performance, but I would be very wary in a boat application, as the engines are used much higher up the duty cycle level than in most applications.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I've never understood the thought that "chipping" an engine is a good idea.

Well there's chipping and chipping. You can buy boxes off the internet for a few quid which promise to improve the performance of your car engine but I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. On the other hand, you can pay a lot more money to a well established company like DMS http://www.dmsautomotive.com to get them to do a proper engine remap. I have had a number of diesel engined cars remapped by DMS over many years and without exception, the remap has delivered more power, more torque and better fuel consumption. DMS claim that the remap is not detectable by the manufacturers diagnostic equipment and so far I have never had any comment from any dealer at service time. I am that confident in DMS that I had my new RRS remapped by them within days of taking delivery. DMS tell me that several L-R dealers actually offer DMS remaps themselves

I have no doubt that DMS could remap a Volvo marine engine for more power and torque but as we have discussed, a boat is different to a car and it would also probably require messing about with the props to take advantage of that extra power otherwise there would be no point in doing the remap

 

[Croftie]

I have no doubt that DMS could remap a Volvo marine engine for more power and torque but as we have discussed, a boat is different to a car and it would also probably require messing about with the props to take advantage of that extra power otherwise there would be no point in doing the remap

How will they get your boat on their 4wd Dyno?

 

[rafiki_]

Well there's chipping and chipping. You can buy boxes off the internet for a few quid which promise to improve the performance of your car engine but I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. On the other hand, you can pay a lot more money to a well established company like DMS http://www.dmsautomotive.com to get them to do a proper engine remap. I have had a number of diesel engined cars remapped by DMS over many years and without exception, the remap has delivered more power, more torque and better fuel consumption. DMS claim that the remap is not detectable by the manufacturers diagnostic equipment and so far I have never had any comment from any dealer at service time. I am that confident in DMS that I had my new RRS remapped by them within days of taking delivery. DMS tell me that several L-R dealers actually offer DMS remaps themselves

I have no doubt that DMS could remap a Volvo marine engine for more power and torque but as we have discussed, a boat is different to a car and it would also probably require messing about with the props to take advantage of that extra power otherwise there would be no point in doing the remap

Mike, you clearly have got away with it with your cars, but the duty cycle of an engine powering a planning boat is considerably more severe. Knowing the amount of work that goes into calibrating and validating engines, makes me very cynical about chipping.

 

[Anders_P42]

DMS claim that the remap is not detectable by the manufacturers diagnostic equipment and so far I have never had any comment from any dealer at service time.

That depends how clever the stock ECU is (and how scrupulous the engine manufacturer is). For example on a Nissan GTR there are lots of parameters data logged somewhere on the CAN bus and Nissan can tell if your car has been mapped by checking peak boost levels throughout the RPM range. They would also see a change in AFR's as they're mapped rich stock. They new my car had been re-mapped when they honoured a bell housing under warranty but did warn that engine was no longer covered...fair enough that was a risk I was happy to take.

And as Croftie says above, who knows how accurate their figures are - are they really saying they've engine dyno'd all those Volvo engine's to backup their power claims?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mike, you clearly have got away with it with your cars, but the duty cycle of an engine powering a planning boat is considerably more severe. Knowing the amount of work that goes into calibrating and validating engines, makes me very cynical about chipping.

I think 'getting away with it' is a bit strong especially given that there are often non technical reasons why car manufacturers limit power and torque outputs on engines. However, I take your point regarding the duty cycle of marine engines and personally I wouldn't consider remapping a marine engine myself

 

[crazy4557]

Well there's chipping and chipping. You can buy boxes off the internet for a few quid which promise to improve the performance of your car engine but I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. On the other hand, you can pay a lot more money to a well established company like DMS http://www.dmsautomotive.com to get them to do a proper engine remap. I have had a number of diesel engined cars remapped by DMS over many years and without exception, the remap has delivered more power, more torque and better fuel consumption. DMS claim that the remap is not detectable by the manufacturers diagnostic equipment and so far I have never had any comment from any dealer at service time. I am that confident in DMS that I had my new RRS remapped by them within days of taking delivery. DMS tell me that several L-R dealers actually offer DMS remaps themselves

I have no doubt that DMS could remap a Volvo marine engine for more power and torque but as we have discussed, a boat is different to a car and it would also probably require messing about with the props to take advantage of that extra power otherwise there would be no point in doing the remap

Is your's the V6 or V8 engine that's been chipped, interested to hear your feedback? I have the V6 engine in the FFRR.

PM me if you don't want to discuss on here.

 

[rafiki_]

I think 'getting away with it' is a bit strong especially given that there are often non technical reasons why car manufacturers limit power and torque outputs on engines. However, I take your point regarding the duty cycle of marine engines and personally I wouldn't consider remapping a marine engine myself

I should give this up
However, you are right that there are several reasons for limiting power and torque, not least protecting the transmission and driveline.

 

[pks1702]

Volvo's

 

[pks1702]

Cummins