Polish Flag Registration

[billskip]

I am assuming we are referring to private /pleasure and not comercial.
It's not easy to be clean, legal and guilt free, especially when old and passed the interest in taking exams and courses.
I wont get another boat, but my son who lives in uk and has UK+Irish passports possible will and I will just do the driving.......he will be legally entitled to P1or SSR and insurance.
However that said because I have residence I may have to
Look at the legal bit about driving it.

 

[Koeketiene]

You can register under the Irish flag.

A friend of mine did it using a firm in Ireland.

I was going to do it but my insurer would not continue cover if the boat was not British registered.

I was insured with GJW for many years.
When I re-registered my then boat in Belgium they refused to cover me.
Moved to Y-Yacht, who subsequently also insured my current Belgian registered boat.
Moved to Pants when Y-Yacht was taken over by Topsail.

 

[Koeketiene]

The flag doesn't control where you can go, your qualification does, ie the rya ICC states limitations as to distance from land. Would you get a Polish equivalent of the ICC?
It's the way I read/understand it for a boat in Spanish waters.
You are supposed to be resident in uk for uk flag and rya ICC.. I think.

Some countries don't require any qualifications.

 

[Tranona]

The flag doesn't control where you can go, your qualification does, ie the rya ICC states limitations as to distance from land. Would you get a Polish equivalent of the ICC?
It's the way I read/understand it for a boat in Spanish waters.
You are supposed to be resident in uk for uk flag and rya ICC.. I think.

Afraid all of this is wrong. The ICC merely says that you meet the requirements of the International certificate sponsored by the UN. It says absolutely nothing about where you can sail. It is issued on behalf of governments to their qualifying citizens, residents or in some cases (as with the RYA) to qualified citizens of other states). Flag is totally irrelevant to where you can sail your boat - it is merely evidence of the flag state of the boat. The restrictions you talk about are related to Spanish citizens on Spain related to their Spanish registered boats. A Spanish citizen can register his boat on the UK register (and many other non Spanish registers) and sail wherever they choose.

 

[Graham376]

First, this is what my thinking/interpretation is( its wide open for correction)
In UK ( vessels under 24mtr LLL under 200 gt )you dont need any qualifications for going to sea (inland water maybe necessary)therefore if a uk flagged boat goes to sea you can basically go where you like subject to you adhering to regulations other countries may enforce.
It is advised that ICC, insurance, radio license and paperwork for the boat will be required.
The flag of the vessel is nothing to do with where it can go.
The insurance will possible have restrictions and if the boat is outside those it will be uninsured and you will be responsible for any occurrence.
Insurance I think is really the main stumbling block.

In some countries such as Portugal, being registered under their flag certainly dictates where it can go. When boat has its mandatory registration survey, they determine what you can do with it and what safety and navigation equipment has to be carried on board.

You're correct about what paperwork has to be carried on board but, in 25 years going foreign, have only been asked for passport, registration and insurance.

 

[billskip]

In some countries such as Portugal, being registered under their flag certainly dictates where it can go. When boat has its mandatory registration survey, they determine what you can do with it and what safety and navigation equipment has to be carried on board.

You're correct about what paperwork has to be carried on board but, in 25 years going foreign, have only been asked for passport, registration and insurance.

I think its basically the same in Spain, that is why I my son would buy the boat and keep it in Spain under UK Flag.

 

[billskip]

Afraid all of this is wrong. The ICC merely says that you meet the requirements of the International certificate sponsored by the UN. It says absolutely nothing about where you can sail. It is issued on behalf of governments to their qualifying citizens, residents or in some cases (as with the RYA) to qualified citizens of other states). Flag is totally irrelevant to where you can sail your boat - it is merely evidence of the flag state of the boat. The restrictions you talk about are related to Spanish citizens on Spain related to their Spanish registered boats. A Spanish citizen can register his boat on the UK register (and many other non Spanish registers) and sail wherever they choose.

The ICC issued by the RYA clearly states the level of qualification. Although this qualification is not necessary in UK it is I believe in Spain.
As Graham 376 says restrictions relating to qualifications are in Portugal as I believe also in Spain.
This of course applies to residence of Spain not to uk residents.
That being said if you are not a resident in the UK you cant hold a RYA ICC.

 

[Wansworth]

I am assuming we are referring to private /pleasure and not comercial.
It's not easy to be clean, legal and guilt free, especially when old and passed the interest in taking exams and courses.
I wont get another boat, but my son who lives in uk and has UK+Irish passports possible will and I will just do the driving.......he will be legally entitled to P1or SSR and insurance.
However that said because I have residence I may have to
Look at the legal bit about driving it.

Go to a gestoria the one Iuse in Vigo called Lexmar know all there is to know,maybe there is similar near you,or contact Lexmar in Vigo

 

[billskip]

Go to a gestoria the one Iuse in Vigo called Lexmar know all there is to know,maybe there is similar near you,or contact Lexmar in Vigo

I have been in touch and discussed all, the bit that is always a problem is the ' little grey area' which doesn't exist really.
Simply put a UK resident owner of a UK flagged boat with an ICC can use a boat in Spanish waters. However if a UK expat now resident in Spain uses the boat then he must conform to the Spanish rules. As the rya ICC held by the expat now resident in Spain I believe it becomes invalid. I have heard that it can be exchanged for a Spanish one.
All this makes no difference unless you are worried about being totally legal, one can have the necessary UK requirements on paper and obtain flag and ICC, but if something goes wrong........

 

[billskip]

Some countries don't require any qualifications.

The UK being one for sea going. Except for comercial use.
However living in the country that requires qualifications it's a pita when you are the wrong side of 78.

 

[Wansworth]

I have been in touch and discussed all, the bit that is always a problem is the ' little grey area' which doesn't exist really.
Simply put a UK resident owner of a UK flagged boat with an ICC can use a boat in Spanish waters. However if a UK expat now resident in Spain uses the boat then he must conform to the Spanish rules. As the rya ICC held by the expat now resident in Spain I believe it becomes invalid. I have heard that it can be exchanged for a Spanish one.
All this makes no difference unless you are worried about being totally legal, one can have the necessary UK requirements on paper and obtain flag and ICC, but if something goes wrong........

Yes…..Spain isa country of laws,mainly pinched from the French that does it’s best to restrain its citizens and I am afraid our British attitude to laws is you obey them whereas theSpanish try to avoid them

 

[sailaboutvic]

It maybe the case that being based in a marina which you go down to each week to check or go out on your boat there more chance of question asked .
But I do know many who now have got residency in countries with boats under SSR and holding ICC and they not concern .
After many many years cruising like what Graham said the only thing I been ask for was insurance, registers and passport and only very latterly ICC has been ask for.

When a skipperis ask the produce a skipper license which they don't have and reply with "under our country flag we don't need one " official don't know what to do and mostly just avoid asking again.
I know in Greece for example where it's become a question ask on a regular basis for some years now , there is a document to sign to the fact that you don't need one ,
Although the problem is in Greece not every PP know this and you have to strongly argu the point before someone turn up who does know.

 

[st599]

The ICC issued by the RYA clearly states the level of qualification. Although this qualification is not necessary in UK it is I believe in Spain.
As Graham 376 says restrictions relating to qualifications are in Portugal as I believe also in Spain.
This of course applies to residence of Spain not to uk residents.
That being said if you are not a resident in the UK you cant hold a RYA ICC.

https://unece.org/sites/default/fil.../2021-12/2021-12-30 Map ICC.jpg?itok=mhXJgh36

Spain is not a signatory to the ICC.

 

[billskip]

https://unece.org/sites/default/files/styles/max_1300x1300/public/2021-12/2021-12-30 Map ICC.jpg?itok=mhXJgh36

Spain is not a signatory to the ICC.

I believe as of 2021 it was agreed that Spain recognised the rya qualifications, I think this was due to bare boat charter of Spanish flagged boats.
So I assume ( I know it's wrong to assume) recognition of rya qualifications also included the ICC.
I would think there are many expats skippering large boats that only have minimum requirement qualifications for an ICC....this is really about what is legally conforming to a country's regulations, not about the abilities of the skipper.
As said in my earlier post, I believe there are two different issues one is the boat the other is the person.
If an English expat is resident in Spain he will have to conform to Spanish requirements of qualifications in Spanish waters, it doesn't matter what flag is on the boat.

 

[billskip]

https://unece.org/sites/default/files/styles/max_1300x1300/public/2021-12/2021-12-30 Map ICC.jpg?itok=mhXJgh36

Spain is not a signatory to the ICC.

24 May 21

The RYA has received confirmation that its International Certificates of Competence (ICC) and several of its course completion certificates and other Certificates of Competence remain valid for skippering Spanish flagged boats. The announcement comes following persistent and coordinated consultations through the UK Government with Spain’s General Directorate for Merchant Marine (DGMM).

 

[Graham376]

In which countries have folks actually been asked for qualifications when sailing their own UK registered boats? So far, I've not been asked for them in France, Portugal or Spain, in 20+ years. It has been said above that expats are not entitled to have ICC issued but presumably, those having them prior to leaving the UK should be able to renew them?

There is another document which is occasionally asked for in Portugal, the T2L. They're irrelevant for boats newly arriving in the EU these days but, for those who were there on B day and now trying to prove boat was in free circulation at that time, don't chuck them away if you have one. I've only been asked to produce it once, when PM were helping me out by photographing and issuing declaration of boat's presence on the mooring on 31/12/20, to keep VAT status.

 

[sailaboutvic]

In which countries have folks actually been asked for qualifications when sailing their own UK registered boats? So far, I've not been asked for them in France, Portugal or Spain, in 20+ years. It has been said above that expats are not entitled to have ICC issued but presumably, those having them prior to leaving the UK should be able to renew them?

There is another document which is occasionally asked for in Portugal, the T2L. They're irrelevant for boats newly arriving in the EU these days but, for those who were there on B day and now trying to prove boat was in free circulation at that time, don't chuck them away if you have one. I've only been asked to produce it once, when PM were helping me out by photographing and issuing declaration of boat's presence on the mooring on 31/12/20, to keep VAT status.

Greece for sure now ask for skipper license.
There a list they give you when you check in ie Insurance, reg and so on .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Why can't ex pat use an ICC . On years gone by many Dutch and other European did RYA courses to get their skipper license

 

[billskip]

Why can't ex pat use an ICC . On years gone by many Dutch and other European did RYA courses to get their skipper license

I think the rya say you must be resident in UK to hold a valid rya ICC .....

 

[Graham376]

Why can't ex pat use an ICC . On years gone by many Dutch and other European did RYA courses to get their skipper license

I'm awaiting call back from RYA with the definitive answer, those who know are in a meeting