Stingo
Well-known member
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Last edited:
Polish Flag Registration
- Thread starter Stingo
- Start date
RobbieW
Well-known member
Indeed, I have just renewed my ICC and was asked to confirm I am resident in the UK. The certificate is returned to the address given for residency.
Stingo
Well-known member
If they call back, please ask them if they have an opinion about Polish Registration.I'm awaiting call back from RYA with the definitive answer, those who know are in a meeting
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
Many European did RYA courses .
Maybe it the day skipper, coastal skipper,yachtmaster which are valid to non brits but then if that's the case ICC is given them anyway
billskip
Well-known member
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
You can guess what the RYA going to say to that
billskip
Well-known member
What surprises me is why the forum members that I'm sure know the answers as they work in the industry /sailing schools/examiners wont give a clear understanding on this thread.
Tranona
Well-known member
This does not mean that the ICC (or RYA qualifications) are equivalent to Spanish qualifications. Spain like Croatia and Greece for example accept RYA qualifications and ICC for visitors chartering boats that are locally registered. So a Spanish citizen could hold an RYA qualification or ICC but would still need the appropriate Spanish qualification for a Spanish registered boat. The Spanish boat would also need to meet all the restrictions that accompany the registration. This is all "local" law and nothing to do with international recognition. As many Spanish (and Portuguese) have found, along with Russian oligarchs and the like all this can be avoided by registering on one of the "open" registries, most of which are part of the "Red Duster" group and include the UK Part 1. A recent development has been further open registers aimed at more modest boat owners such as the Polish and San Marino registers. In part this popularity is a consequence of the UK government restricting the use of Part 3 to genuine UK residents.
Tranona
Well-known member
While they can still get an RYA qualification they cannot get an ICC if they are citizens of a state that has signed up to Resolution 40 - which includes the Netherlands. They can, however if they are resident in the UK.
It is all explained on the RYA site and the guidance for eligibility and application for the ICC.
Tranona
Well-known member
Well, I hope that everything I write is correct as I check it all with the original sources, but of course am open to correction.
The whole subject is complicated because there are so many different sources of law/regulation/agreements etc, never mind the varying interpretations by local officials. Unlike the other related subject for boat owners of VAT there is no one single source of the principles of law, but a hotch potch of local law (not just at state level), international agreements that are based on commercial shipping, UN Resolution 40 which only a relatively small number of states have signed up, but many more accept and so on. So if Poland wants to open its register to non Poles it is free to do so and get it accepted as a Flag State registration - that is no different from the UK Part 1, except that the latter is also a register of title and requirements more difficult to meet.
One can see the attraction of Polish registration for certain non residents like British ex pats who no longer have access to UK Part 3, but in reality Part 1 is a much better option provided the provenance of the boat is acceptable for title to be registered. There is the cost of the survey, but over the life of the registration this is small, and if buying a "new" boat can be combined with the pre purchase survey.
billskip
Well-known member
AFAIK a Spanish resident has to have the Spanish qualifications to skipper a boat in Spanish waters and is restricted to the use of the boat within the parameters of his/her qualifications, it doesn't matter what flag is on the boat.
billskip
Well-known member
Afaik a UK expat now resident in Spain needs Spanish qualifications to skipper a boat in Spanish waters.
The boat can be registered on the moon and fly the rising sun.
Tranona
Well-known member
Yes, I know that local law treats residents the same as citizens which is why I explicitly said that the Spanish "recognition" applies to visitors.
This is a good example to illustrate why it is so difficult to give any comprehensive answer to these sorts of questions. You have to look at the individual set of circumstances. Just to make it more fun there are many situations where the actual law says one thing but it can be ignored completely or interpreted/enforced differently in different parts of the country or even from official to official. Found many examples of this during my 10 years keeping a boat in Greece.
dunedin
Well-known member
Perhaps because on this UK forum most people, and most sailing school instructors / examiners, are UK residents - albeit many sail internationally.
A poster like you who doesn’t list their location is hardly likely to get definitive information for their very specific combination of residency, nationality and boat registration, particularly when their chosen location has complex rules.
billskip
Well-known member
Ok, but I'm looking at this from the point of 'things have gone tits up'
If through no fault of yours you were involved in an accident and boat sunk, injuring third party,pollution, salvage etc, and you were asked to produce all necessary documents, is it not possible that just maybe one document that you have never had to show in 30 yrs is invalid....err...
Does the insurance then say we wont pay? ...err...
It needs to be black and white...
I dont care if what I post is not correct as long as what is correct is posted to make it clear.
My belief is that in a lot of situations the register/flag of a vessel is a separate issue to required qualifications in some countries.
billskip
Well-known member
I am on Tenerife ...however this is the internet which means it is www not just UK
You may be a little surprised that there are people down under that post here.
Tranona
Well-known member
You are right - but impossible to think that anything can be black and white in the sort of circumstances you describe. However on the question of documents, for each individual there may be choices, for example where you register your boat but the requirements are very basic. Registration, insurance, personal identity. 2Qualifications" are largely irrelevant unless they are required by your local law. As many have said here over the years documentary requirements for individual cruisers in most of the world are minimal. Where they do become more onerous, specific advice can be obtained from a variety of sources such as the RYA CA.
How can one possibly predict what will happen after an accident - by definition these are individual events. Equally how they are dealt with by local officials varies enormously. In Greece for example almost certainly your boat will be impounded after any form of emergency callout and not released until it has cleared a survey. no doubt there are many more local variations, but it is really up to you to find out (if it bothers you) what is relevant where you are. As for insurance - you have a contract with your insurer to indemnify you from certain types of loss. Read what they are.
I have to say, though you really are fretting too much - the vast majority of cruisers never have any negative interaction with the authorities. Identifying themselves and their boat is all that is required
billskip
Well-known member
I'm not fretting at all.
What I am doing is trying to understand, and maybe help others understand the correct legal situation .
If I drive a car in the UK I know clearly what documents I need and how important those documents need to be correct/valid.
For me it's simple, I have asked the Spanish authorities and both they and me are satisfied with my interpretation and understanding of the requirements for me.
I am not suggesting for one moment that 'winging it' or 'flying under the radar' is wrong.
I interpret that the op thinks that getting Polish registration also removes the necessity for complying with a countries skipper qualification requirement .
What I am doing is trying to understand, and maybe help others understand the correct legal situation .
If I drive a car in the UK I know clearly what documents I need and how important those documents need to be correct/valid.
For me it's simple, I have asked the Spanish authorities and both they and me are satisfied with my interpretation and understanding of the requirements for me.
I am not suggesting for one moment that 'winging it' or 'flying under the radar' is wrong.
I interpret that the op thinks that getting Polish registration also removes the necessity for complying with a countries skipper qualification requirement .
Stingo
Well-known member
Nope. I'm trying find a reasonable alternative to Part 1 that doesn't mean taking out a large bank overdraft.
Graham376
Well-known member
I forgot that question, didn't want to upset them
ICC. A suitably qualified UK NATIONAL living abroad, with no UK residence, can be issued with an ICC but they must make their nationality clear on the application.