Poised for the perfect docking manoeuvre... engage astern... and there goes the propeller...

[MagicalArmchair]

After a windy and choppy crossing of the Thames from the Medway to the Orwell on the first day of our half term holiday, we (first mate and four kids) were relieved to arrive at Woolverstone marina. Salt encrusted from the spray, we pootled over to our allotted berth, carrying quite a lot of way against the cross wind - that and I know Mirage will stop very quickly with her big D2-55. The first mate jumps off and puts her amidships rope on her usual cleat, that I may hold the boat against to pull the boat in, and she knows not to snub the boat. The boy gets his bow line ready to throw. All looks great, engage astern to take off the way, and nothing. I think "Cripes, the gearbox is in neutral.", and in the precious few moments before connection, I gambled on a second engagement of astern to do the trick... nothing... and crash. The bow connects with the pontoon in a shuddering jolt. I try forward, nothing, I figure something pretty dire has occurred.

On inspecting the damage to the bow, it is pretty ugly, but likely superficial gel coat repairs. I check the gear linkages, all are fine so I get out my underwater camera and lash it to a couple of boat hooks lashed together and the below is what we see.



The propeller and rope cutter are all gone.

Questions:

1. Is it worth asking a diver to look for the missing propeller and rope cutter? We are berthed right on the inside at Woolverstone where the mud looks hard, the visibility is poor in the water, and there isn't much tide to carry stuff away. What are the odds of a diver finding these bits? Can anyone recommend a Suffolk diver or someone who could do the job? Or do we think it is just too unlikely for the prop wizzing off backwards at speed to be located? It was low water when it happened, in just 3m of water.
2. What did I do wrong? When I refitted the prop (which was supposed to be the "easy bit" once I had refitted the new saildrive seal), I applied locktite blue to the locking screw (I couldn't find the red stuff in my garage). I can only think there must have been contamination on the screw (grease from the splines perhaps). There has never been any mechanical locking, such as a tab washer, beyond that screw.
3. How to get the boat moving again under engine? For some reason, the old owner had a spare propeller on board (I never could guess why) - I do need a replacement rope cutter (or one dredged up from behind where the boat sits) and the cone. A tow to Foxes after getting hold of the parts for a lift and hold would seem the obvious choice? Are there any others? How do I prevent this happening again?

 

[rotrax]

Been there, done that!

Ours came off after 10 hours motoring after being caught on a pot rope off Rathlin Island. The RNLI, HM Coastguard and I, after examining with a waterproof camera on a stick, pronounced everything good.

They always, of course, come off in astern...............................................................

 

[Deleted member 478]

Happened to a friend of mine in the Crabby-Ian. He found his prop almost directly below the position he was in when he went into reverse.

The jury at the boozer that evening all agreed that the prop would have stopped spinning almost immediately and then sunk in a similar manner to a leaf falling from a tree. So it's probably worth getting a diver in

 

[Hoolie]

Happened to a friend when he was doing his practical exam for an ICC. They avoided major damage by rapid fendering and wild boat hook use. He never found his prop but he did get his ICC!

 

[Concerto]

Claim on your insurance for a new propellor and lift out plus additional berthing and travelling back home and back.

 

[XDC]

Happened to me in The Morbihan … where the tides can run at 9 knots between the islands, but not in the bays. We had gone in for a week, topped up the fridge accordingly and arrived at Larmor-Baden where we moored to a pre-arranged buoy. After the first day … 25 degree weather … I noticed that the fridge wasn’t turning off. I had no idea why not, so did things like disconnecting the thermostat, er, reconnecting it and turned to emergency drinking of the wine whilst it was still cool
Monitoring both service batteries told me that they would be at 50% within 4 days … I still had the trusty engine start battery.
What to do? Weather and location were stunning so I decided to run the engine for a few hours a day ... in reverse naturally, as I knew that diesels hate being on tick over. Had I been on anchor I don’t think this would have been possible due to sheering around, but the buoy was perfect and come day 7 with an empty fridge we decided to leave.

Engine started, cast off, float back a bit, engage gear, apart from increased revs nothing happened. Temporary brain fade. A passing rib pit us back on the buoy and, like you, I eventually checked the prop. Your picture brings back horrid memories!

Cutting a very long story very short:

An amateur diver found everything except the stainless steel bolt … prop, cone, delrin washer! and Ambassador rope cutter. Strange re the washer and not the bolt but hey-ho … he put it all back on the shaft and promising not to engage reverse we made it to Crouesty where there was both a Volvo dealership and a Frigo guy.

Everything was found close together, your advantage is that you lost yours in a fixed location … our bouy was in different locations each day.

So yes to Q1

Q2. Don‘t know. I did what you did. I was buying just the bolt from the dealership, I explained why and he showed me that the new one had a recess in it with a blob of sealant. He suggested always replacing the bolt. His thought was that extended running in reverse was the problem (possibly with the wrong loctite) and it’s hard to argue.

Q3. Can’t answer that ... I suppose it depends on the cutter and what you might recover. I knew that I was stranded as, already mentioned, we had an Ambassador cutter which is an integral part of the prop and anode. It HAS to be there. Having found a diver I’m pretty sure that I could have got a tow but that hadn’t been my first thought with >£1k on the seabed, plus the Ambassador isn’t exactly an easy fit with a new prop.

Good luck.

 

[Daydream believer]

I have a brand new Ambassador clone for sale, at a lot cheaper than an ambassador price. Fits a 120S sail drive.
Can be collected at Bradwell. or CM07LY
PM if interested

 

[Bobc]

Saildrive props are known for this behaviour.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Happened to me in The Morbihan … where the tides can run at 9 knots between the islands, but not in the bays. We had gone in for a week, topped up the fridge accordingly and arrived at Larmor-Baden where we moored to a pre-arranged buoy. After the first day … 25 degree weather … I noticed that the fridge wasn’t turning off. I had no idea why not, so did things like disconnecting the thermostat, er, reconnecting it and turned to emergency drinking of the wine whilst it was still cool
Monitoring both service batteries told me that they would be at 50% within 4 days … I still had the trusty engine start battery.
What to do? Weather and location were stunning so I decided to run the engine for a few hours a day ... in reverse naturally, as I knew that diesels hate being on tick over. Had I been on anchor I don’t think this would have been possible due to sheering around, but the buoy was perfect and come day 7 with an empty fridge we decided to leave.

Engine started, cast off, float back a bit, engage gear, apart from increased revs nothing happened. Temporary brain fade. A passing rib pit us back on the buoy and, like you, I eventually checked the prop. Your picture brings back horrid memories!

Cutting a very long story very short:

An amateur diver found everything except the stainless steel bolt … prop, cone, delrin washer! and Ambassador rope cutter. Strange re the washer and not the bolt but hey-ho … he put it all back on the shaft and promising not to engage reverse we made it to Crouesty where there was both a Volvo dealership and a Frigo guy.

Everything was found close together, your advantage is that you lost yours in a fixed location … our bouy was in different locations each day.

So yes to Q1

Q2. Don‘t know. I did what you did. I was buying just the bolt from the dealership, I explained why and he showed me that the new one had a recess in it with a blob of sealant. He suggested always replacing the bolt. His thought was that extended running in reverse was the problem (possibly with the wrong loctite) and it’s hard to argue.

Q3. Can’t answer that ... I suppose it depends on the cutter and what you might recover. I knew that I was stranded as, already mentioned, we had an Ambassador cutter which is an integral part of the prop and anode. It HAS to be there. Having found a diver I’m pretty sure that I could have got a tow but that hadn’t been my first thought with >£1k on the seabed, plus the Ambassador isn’t exactly an easy fit with a new prop.

Good luck.

Thank you for sharing that tale. That turns my blood cold, it's lucky that rib was passing by. Sailing onto a mooring or to anchor as an exercise is all good fun and useful skills to have - doing under duress is another thing.

I've reached out to some local divers - if anyone has any recommendations, let me know.

Thanks for everyone else's comments. It's nice to know I am not alone in this adventure!

 

[scottie]

a true story McGruer of Clynder we’re launching their latest boat and reversed it from the slipway and to their embarrassment the prop pulled the shaft right out the tube

 

[Leighb]

Claim on your insurance for a new propellor and lift out plus additional berthing and travelling back home and back.

One snag is that you cannot get a lift out at Woolverstone any more, you will need to find a way of getting to a local yard that can lift you or haul you out. Might be worth contacting King’s at Pin Mill, they would haul you out in a cradle, but could certainly tow you round quite easily. Otherwise it is SYH, Shotley, Foxes or Ipswich Haven.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Using locitie without given the thread a good clean and then given it a few hours to go off could be the problem ,
contamination will stop it from working , I found this out to my expense after replacing an saildrive oil seal , which leaked again after 30 hours , I found the two bolts that held the hub have worked they way loose.
Good luck finding the prop

 

[drawp]

My ten-cents worth would suggest it might be worthwhile getting a diver to make a search under the position where you engaged reverse.
I had a similiar experience after a bumpy trip motor-sailing along the Costa da Morte in Galicia. Fortunately I was going slowly when lining up to enter a berth in the marina at Camarais in Galacia. I engaged reverse but nothing appeared to happen apart from an unhealthy clunk. I did get some funny looks from the Harbourmaster who, along with my crew, managed to prevent us from hitting the pontoon.
Even though it was an overcast day and the water was pretty murky, a diver managed to find the anchor without too much trouble. Who knows when the prop nut vibrated off but the prop pulled itself off when reverse was engaged. As I had a spare prop nut, the next 24 hrs was memorable as all the yotties in the marina rallied to help us dry out against the quay wall and re-install the prop. The resultant party to celebrate a successful mission was anything but "dry".

 

[Deleted member 478]

...
Even though it was an overcast day and the water was pretty murky, a diver managed to find the anchor without too much trouble. Who knows when the prop nut vibrated off but the prop pulled itself off when reverse was engaged. As I had a spare prop nut, the next 24 hrs was memorable as all the yotties in the marina rallied to help us dry out against the quay wall and re-install the prop. The resultant party to celebrate a successful mission was anything but "dry".

Geez, were you using your anchor as a prop? More info needed. Maybe start another anchor thread

 

[drawp]

Even after re-reading "x" times, I still make a typo!

 

[ash2020]

Sorry to hear about your misadventures. I wish I was closer, I'm in Wiltshire. I have an amazing ROV with a grabber which would be more than adequate to find and recover your prop, but I rarely get chance to use it in earnest. It might be worth looking on the ROV facebook groups to find if there's someone near to you who would likely do it for the fun.

 

[Neeves]

I think Volvo supply a blue loctite type adhesive (and I assume it is a blue loctite). Its use is for the small Alan recessed bolts that hold the shafts around which each blade rotates. We have always used a red loctite. The Volvo props are then secured with a rather large nut a smaller bolt and a tab washer. I use red loctite here as well. I've never had any issues in releasing the red loctite. Loctite does set off underwater, it needs water to set off. There is no difference in strength between setting off in air and setting off underwater immediately after application.

I did have need to buy a rather large socket for the large nut on the shaft - nothing I had was big enough

At boat shows in Australia there are always a surprising number of stands marketing only props - they exist for a reason. Prop loss must be much more common than you could ever imagine - simply to merit these exhibition stands.

Jonathan

 

[ash2020]

Surely a castellated nut and split pin are foolproof.

 

[capnsensible]

Saildrive props are known for this behaviour.

Yup. I had a slight delay in a delivery due to the propellor falling off as the previous skipper, a friend, was coming in to the marina. We got him alongside with a bit of good fortune.

A rival sailing school in Gibraltar had a number of yachts with saildrives and repeatedly shed propellors leading to a long drawn out claim.

Something to be wary of.

 

[Neeves]

Surely a castellated nut and split pin are foolproof.

On our X-99 we had a Gori prop secured with a split pin. Sadly HK was a location in which rubbish collected (in the sea). We had a tenacious plastic bag round the prop and in our enthusiasm we ripped the bag off - including the ends of the pin. Eventually the prop followed the bits of the split pin. Thereafter I religiously used new split pins to a rough schedule (Gori props and any prop are expensive).

If you have a sail drive drilling a hole in the shaft would be hard work - but I wholeheartedly agree with your comment. Simple

Jonathan